Bath
PREMIERSHIP PRODIGALS? BATH v SARACENS
Faletau: return?
By PG Tips
October 12 2021
Bath play the Premiership’s Prodigals when they host Saracens on Sunday afternoon. That at least is the view of the pundits, impressed by Saracens winning start and satisfied that they have been sufficiently sanctioned for past misdemeanours. The visitors have two wins from three, a single point reverse at Welford Road sandwiched between ruthless dispatch of Bristol and Newcastle. They look title contenders already, while winless Bath prop up the table. It could be an uncomfortable afternoon for the Blue, Black & White.
The biblical prodigal son was welcomed home by his father, who laid on a lavish feast in his honour, despite the protests of his other sons. The welcome for Saracens’ return has been more mixed, many believing they should have faced more than a sole season’s relegation and been stripped of their tainted titles. Another contrast is that the prodigal wasted his talents and assets. Saracens broke rules to maximise the impact of theirs, tilting an intended level playing field in their favour. Whatever the morals of the case, they have served the punishment given, are back in the Premiership, in form and looking dangerous. They will not expect to win many friends. To them winning games is all that matters. Indeed, while other clubs embrace an expansive game, Saracens prefer the tried and trusted as their victory over Falcons through attritional defence and counter punch proved last weekend. Aesthetics are for others. Saracens will take a perverse delight in winning however they can: ugly if necessary.
While the original prodigal squandered his time in exile, Saracens used theirs well. After an initial shock at the hands of Cornish Pirates they cruised through the Championship while managing rest and recovery for some senior players. They put some of their newest assets to work on loan, that investment returned with interest in the maturing of Isiekwe, Earl, Lozowski and Malins. Their fit Lions are now back in action, with Itoje likely to return this weekend. Bath can expect a relentless assault of smothering defence, a barrage of kicks, bruising forward drives and driven mauls. It will not be an afternoon for the faint hearted.
There is some good news for Bath. A few loopholes have appeared of late in Saracens chain mail. They were vulnerable in the set piece against both Tigers and Falcons, while their midfield defence has yet to match the impregnability it had when led by Brad Barritt. In both recent matches they were ruffled too by their opponents’ intensity, physicality and old fashioned “niggle” to the extent that they visibly irritated officials with their ill-disciplined reaction and complaints.
That suggests Bath should add a large dose of pragmatism to their preparations for Sunday. Saracens clearly did not enjoy a taste of their own medicine in the first half last week and are traditionally less daunting when forced onto the back foot. All Bath’s rare victories over Saracens in recent years have come from getting in their faces early on and applying continuous pressure. Warrior spirit and intense onslaught preceding pretty patterns in attack could pay dividends.
Bath could well be reinforced by the return of Faletau and Cipriani. I would be tempted too to employ new loan signing Simpson from the bench. He has recent knowledge of Saracens and offers the threat of unpredictability to keep them honest. Surely this is also the sort of gladiatorial occasion suited to Jaco Coetzee -an ideal opportunity for his first start? To stand a chance, Bath must seize on every opportunity and ensure the officials see a picture of probity in the home side, chicanery from the visitors: by deception if necessary. If Bath can go toe to toe with their visitors up front, they have the young stars and the new- found attack confidence to spring a surprise. Saracens will be banking on victory. Bath must find the trickery to skew the balance in their favour.
Possible Teams.
Bath Rugby: Boyce, Du Toit, Stuart, Ewels, McNally, Coetzee, Underhill, Faletau. Fox, Cipriani. Watson, Ojomoh, Joseph, Muir. De Glanville.
Replacements: Obano, Dunn, Rae, Williams, Reid. Simpson, Bailey, McConnochie.
Saracens: M. Vunipola, George, Riccioni, Itoje, Swinson, Isiekwe, Earl, B. Vunipola, Davies; Farrell (capt), Maitland, Lozowski, Morris, Lewington, Malins.
Replacements: Woolstencroft, Mawi, Clarey, Hunter-Hill, Reffell. Van Zyl, Goode, Tompkins.
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StumbleuponPREMIERSHIP PRODIGALS? BATH v SARACENS. Team Up!
Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 12/10/2021 16:58
12/10/2021 16:58
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:19:16:05:12 by P G Tips.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:19:16:05:12 by P G Tips.
Well Faletau probably needs a warm up game before the Wales Autumn Internationals, so will likely play but be careful not to exert himself too much; Not sure if Cips will fancy this one or prefer to catch up on Paw Patrol with the grandkids.
Expect Ewels to be largely anonymous as Captain, and Blosson, Bubbles and Buttercup to be battered upfront. Suppose we might get lucky and sneak a BP, but I wouldn't even bet your house on it. Best chance for a first win looks like Gloucester at home on Boxing day - can we club together and send them lots of whisky and choccies to try and help the, lads out a bit?
All together: "We're "not very good", and we know we are, We're "not very good" and we know we are..." etc.
Expect Ewels to be largely anonymous as Captain, and Blosson, Bubbles and Buttercup to be battered upfront. Suppose we might get lucky and sneak a BP, but I wouldn't even bet your house on it. Best chance for a first win looks like Gloucester at home on Boxing day - can we club together and send them lots of whisky and choccies to try and help the, lads out a bit?
All together: "We're "not very good", and we know we are, We're "not very good" and we know we are..." etc.
Quote:NotColin
Well Faletau probably needs a warm up game before the Wales Autumn Internationals, so will likely play but be careful not to exert himself too much; Not sure if Cips will fancy this one or prefer to catch up on Paw Patrol with the grandkids.
Expect Ewels to be largely anonymous as Captain, and Blosson, Bubbles and Buttercup to be battered upfront. Suppose we might get lucky and sneak a BP, but I wouldn't even bet your house on it. Best chance for a first win looks like Gloucester at home on Boxing day - can we club together and send them lots of whisky and choccies to try and help the, lads out a bit?
All together: "We're "not very good", and we know we are, We're "not very good" and we know we are..." etc.
Do you classify yourself as a Bath Supporter?
Quote:NotColin
Well Faletau probably needs a warm up game before the Wales Autumn Internationals, so will likely play but be careful not to exert himself too much; Not sure if Cips will fancy this one or prefer to catch up on Paw Patrol with the grandkids.
Expect Ewels to be largely anonymous as Captain, and Blosson, Bubbles and Buttercup to be battered upfront.
Some guidelines: 1. No personal abuse of players, management or other posters. For avoidance of doubt, this includes comments on players effort/commitment levels.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
NotColin was sent a PM some weeks ago regarding abuse which he has chosen not to read. Our suspicion is that he/she is a previous poster and therefore is using multiple identities as well. He is therefore banned on both accounts!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:13:11:05:01 by CoochieCoo.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:13:11:05:01 by CoochieCoo.
Paw Patrol is over rated.
On paper we could get battered, the silver lining might be Eddie will ignore our EQPs and we could shine in November and next spring.
I will clutch at more straws when we see who is fit to play.
On paper we could get battered, the silver lining might be Eddie will ignore our EQPs and we could shine in November and next spring.
I will clutch at more straws when we see who is fit to play.
Quote:CoochieCoo
NotColin was sent a PM some weeks ago regarding abuse which he has chosen not to read. Our suspicion is that he/she is a previous poster and therefore is using multiple identities as well. He is therefore banned on both accounts!
CC are you saying he actually is Colin?
Quote:Mike the Taxi
Has anyone seen Ballsout and Malco in the same room, together?
I wouldn’t want to be in that room anyway!
A battering looms…………..or possibly Sarries become over confident and fall to pieces ?
So a 3 point win or a 30 point drubbing ?
Either way we shall be there
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
So a 3 point win or a 30 point drubbing ?
Either way we shall be there
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Quote:Mike the Taxi
Has anyone seen Ballsout and Malco in the same room, together?
I'm very sure that if Ballsout found himself in the same room as me he would leave quickly.
Headline in The Times…
Itoje champing at the bit before Saracens return.
Great! More good news!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:14:08:32:34 by dr.bath1865.
Itoje champing at the bit before Saracens return.
Great! More good news!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:14:08:32:34 by dr.bath1865.
Looking back at the comments I would have thought Notcolin has more in common with Old Fat Prop than Ballsout.
Not really fair to be talking about BO when he can't respond IMO.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Well, NotColin’s predictions looking predictably wrong as Cips in line to play this weekend - [www.somersetlive.co.uk]
Faletau still not in line to make his pre 6 Nations warm ups yet. Coetzee being limited on game time to cover for that period. Wencer nearly back, Bencer is out running, McC in the running this weekend.
Faletau still not in line to make his pre 6 Nations warm ups yet. Coetzee being limited on game time to cover for that period. Wencer nearly back, Bencer is out running, McC in the running this weekend.
I'm torn between being impressed and horrified with 'Wencer' and 'Bencer' there Rawce
Some positive some negative news regarding injuries.
Cipriani is back in contention
Will Spencer is nearly back
Mcconchie is back
Ben Spencer is runner again but isn't doing any rugby yet
In the not so positive column Faletau was injured in training.
Those questioning Coetzee absence Hooper explained.
“It was completely just a selection decision. Jaco has come in and has been an outstanding young man, he is desperate to play.
“He had Covid over the summer so he had a decent amount of time out with that, travelled and got caught up in quarantine, all those sorts of things. So it is just about getting him back up to speed.
“When you look at the back row it is very competitive.
“Competition for places is hot and Jaco just needs a bit more time to get himself ready physically for the game we need him to play but he is getting there and looking good. He is a very strong ball carrier and we will see him soon him.”
With Faletau likely to be away for all of November on international duty, and the likes of Sam Underhill (England) and Josh Bayliss (Scotland) in line to also get call-ups for their country, Hooper singled that Coetzee is being readied for that period when the squad is stretched.
Cipriani is back in contention
Will Spencer is nearly back
Mcconchie is back
Ben Spencer is runner again but isn't doing any rugby yet
In the not so positive column Faletau was injured in training.
Those questioning Coetzee absence Hooper explained.
“It was completely just a selection decision. Jaco has come in and has been an outstanding young man, he is desperate to play.
“He had Covid over the summer so he had a decent amount of time out with that, travelled and got caught up in quarantine, all those sorts of things. So it is just about getting him back up to speed.
“When you look at the back row it is very competitive.
“Competition for places is hot and Jaco just needs a bit more time to get himself ready physically for the game we need him to play but he is getting there and looking good. He is a very strong ball carrier and we will see him soon him.”
With Faletau likely to be away for all of November on international duty, and the likes of Sam Underhill (England) and Josh Bayliss (Scotland) in line to also get call-ups for their country, Hooper singled that Coetzee is being readied for that period when the squad is stretched.
Quote:dr.bath1865
Headline in The Times…
Itoje champing at the bit before Saracens return.
Great! More good news!
I hope all of Sarries stars play and they are at full strength, can’t see us competing whoever they put out so I’d rather watch top players.
Quote:I know, it feels both clunky and elegant at the same time. Clugant? Elenky? I need to stop now.hasta
I'm torn between being impressed and horrified with 'Wencer' and 'Bencer' there Rawce
Some signa of positive injury news but I just do not get the comments in relation to Coetzee.
We have no ball carrier's and he is a ball carrier. Our forwards are being repeatedly battered and we are holding him back for what!! He could and I repeat could have been the difference against Bristol. We desperately needed power and instead Hoops decided to hold him back. If that is the case then why risk him in a nothing preseason game against Cardiff? Where he could have easily picked up an injury. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and sounds like more evidence of failings again from Hoops I fear.
We have no ball carrier's and he is a ball carrier. Our forwards are being repeatedly battered and we are holding him back for what!! He could and I repeat could have been the difference against Bristol. We desperately needed power and instead Hoops decided to hold him back. If that is the case then why risk him in a nothing preseason game against Cardiff? Where he could have easily picked up an injury. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and sounds like more evidence of failings again from Hoops I fear.
There may be justifiable criticism’s directed at Hooper but implying that you know more about the fitness & readiness of any particular player is ludicrous.
Well particularly because the problem against Bristol was very much the tight five and our discipline and not number 8.
I think that Bayliss has played well in the first few games. Given that we will be light in the back row when the autumn internationals start it sounds like a not unreasonable plan to me to keep Coetzee fresh - much as I want to see what he can do.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
One things for certain, it really doesn't matter who Bath pick if we continue to concede so many penalties. For the first 3 games we're averaging almost 15 penalties per game, which is a ridiculous amount and certain to make it an even easier day for Saracens if that is repeated.
Think this will be a behind the sofa watch. But you just never know with sport - just hope Bath come away with a decent performance and NO SILLY STUPID GIVE AWAY PENALTIES.
Quote:BathMatt53
I think that Bayliss has played well in the first few games. Given that we will be light in the back row when the autumn internationals start it sounds like a not unreasonable plan to me to keep Coetzee fresh - much as I want to see what he can do.
Agreed. Bayliss has gone well and felt like we wanted to pick a fast, mobile 8 with ellis at 6.
The coaches look at blocks of games as per behind the scenes videos. Clearly they think coetzee will be heavily used in November so getting him primed for that doesn't seem absurd, esp after injury/illness. Playing 20 mins off the bench quite different to being expected to go the full 80.
Certainly excited to see what he offers over the next few months.
Massive shame faletau is injured- assume he would have played the next few games so rubbish timing as get the impression he will be OK by the time the internationals come round. I think he is absolute class but increasingly tough to make an argument of vfm.
Crumbs...
Saracens Men team to play Bath Rugby:
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Jamie George
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Maro Itoje
5 Tim Swinson
6 Nick Isiekwe
7 Ben Earl
8 Billy Vunipola
9 Aled Davies
10 Owen Farrell (c)
11 Max Malins
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Alex Lozowski
14 Sean Maitland
15 Alex Goode
Replacements:
16 Tom Woolstencroft
17 Eroni Mawi
18 Vincent Koch
19 Andy Christie
20 Sean Reffell
21 Ivan van Zyl
22 Dom Morris
23 Rotimi Según
Saracens Men team to play Bath Rugby:
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Jamie George
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Maro Itoje
5 Tim Swinson
6 Nick Isiekwe
7 Ben Earl
8 Billy Vunipola
9 Aled Davies
10 Owen Farrell (c)
11 Max Malins
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Alex Lozowski
14 Sean Maitland
15 Alex Goode
Replacements:
16 Tom Woolstencroft
17 Eroni Mawi
18 Vincent Koch
19 Andy Christie
20 Sean Reffell
21 Ivan van Zyl
22 Dom Morris
23 Rotimi Según
I still can't understand how that lot is still under the salary cap. That's basically a starting 15 of full internationals.
Should have enough to see that lot off.
Annoying that the Bath team is an image so you can't just paste it. Still, Cips plays:
Danny Cipriani will make his home debut for Bath Rugby on Sunday when the Blue, Black and Whites host Saracens in Round 5 of the Gallagher Premiership.
The fly-half featured on the opening day of the season but was forced off due to a head knock and has since had to go through the Graduated Return to Play concussion protocols.
He will partner Ollie Fox in the half-back positions with the scrum-half making his third consecutive start.
Max Ojomoh and Jonathan Joseph continue their budding relationship in the midfield and Anthony Watson comes into the back three on the wing alongside Will Muir and Tom de Glanville.
In the pack, Tom Dunn returns at hooker in an all-England front row with Beno Obano and Will Stuart.
Captain Charlie Ewels and Josh McNally are named in the second row while Miles Reid, Sam Underhill and Josh Bayliss compete as a back row from the start for the third time in the 2021/22 campaign.
On the bench, Ruaridh McConnochie makes his maiden appearance in the Bath 23 this season following a spell on the sidelines through injury.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:15:12:21:45 by BathMatt53.
Annoying that the Bath team is an image so you can't just paste it. Still, Cips plays:
Danny Cipriani will make his home debut for Bath Rugby on Sunday when the Blue, Black and Whites host Saracens in Round 5 of the Gallagher Premiership.
The fly-half featured on the opening day of the season but was forced off due to a head knock and has since had to go through the Graduated Return to Play concussion protocols.
He will partner Ollie Fox in the half-back positions with the scrum-half making his third consecutive start.
Max Ojomoh and Jonathan Joseph continue their budding relationship in the midfield and Anthony Watson comes into the back three on the wing alongside Will Muir and Tom de Glanville.
In the pack, Tom Dunn returns at hooker in an all-England front row with Beno Obano and Will Stuart.
Captain Charlie Ewels and Josh McNally are named in the second row while Miles Reid, Sam Underhill and Josh Bayliss compete as a back row from the start for the third time in the 2021/22 campaign.
On the bench, Ruaridh McConnochie makes his maiden appearance in the Bath 23 this season following a spell on the sidelines through injury.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:15:12:21:45 by BathMatt53.
Quote:BathMatt53
Annoying that the Bath team is an image so you can't just paste it.
Sunday, 3.00pm. BTSport
Ref: Jack Makepeace (8th Premiership game).
TJs: Anthony Woodthorpe & Paul Dix.
TMO: Andrew Jackson.
Bath:
15 Tom de Glanville*
14 Anthony Watson*
13 Jonathan Joseph
12 Max Ojomoh*
11 Will Muir(*)
10 Danny Cipriani
9 Ollie Fox*
1 Beno Obano*
2 Tom Dunn*
3 Will Stuart
4 Josh McNally
5 Charlie Ewels* ©
6 Miles Reid*
7 Sam Underhill
8 Josh Bayliss*
16 Jacques du Toit, 17 Lewis Boyce, 18 D’Arcy Rae, 19 Mike Williams, 20 Tom Ellis*
21 Max Green, 22 Orlando Bailey*, 23 Ruaridh McConnochie(*)
Saracens:
15 Alex Goode
14 Sean Maitland
13 Alex Lozowski
12 Nick Tompkins
11 Max Malins
10 Owen Farrell ©
9 Aled Davies
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Jamie George
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Maro Itoje
5 Tim Swinson
6 Nick Isiekwe
7 Ben Earl
8 Billy Vunipola
16 Tom Woolstencroft, 17 Eroni Mawi, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Andy Christie, 20 Sean Reffell
21 Ivan van Zyl, 22 Dom Morris, 23 Rotimi Segun
For Bath, I make that
11 first choice starters
2 2nd choice starters
2 3rd choice starter
1.4th choice starting XV - our best of the season - and TBH, both 3rd choicers have earned themselves 2nd choice status by now; but I'll stick with my pre-season pecking order for the time being.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Ref: Jack Makepeace (8th Premiership game).
TJs: Anthony Woodthorpe & Paul Dix.
TMO: Andrew Jackson.
Bath:
15 Tom de Glanville*
14 Anthony Watson*
13 Jonathan Joseph
12 Max Ojomoh*
11 Will Muir(*)
10 Danny Cipriani
9 Ollie Fox*
1 Beno Obano*
2 Tom Dunn*
3 Will Stuart
4 Josh McNally
5 Charlie Ewels* ©
6 Miles Reid*
7 Sam Underhill
8 Josh Bayliss*
16 Jacques du Toit, 17 Lewis Boyce, 18 D’Arcy Rae, 19 Mike Williams, 20 Tom Ellis*
21 Max Green, 22 Orlando Bailey*, 23 Ruaridh McConnochie(*)
Saracens:
15 Alex Goode
14 Sean Maitland
13 Alex Lozowski
12 Nick Tompkins
11 Max Malins
10 Owen Farrell ©
9 Aled Davies
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Jamie George
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Maro Itoje
5 Tim Swinson
6 Nick Isiekwe
7 Ben Earl
8 Billy Vunipola
16 Tom Woolstencroft, 17 Eroni Mawi, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Andy Christie, 20 Sean Reffell
21 Ivan van Zyl, 22 Dom Morris, 23 Rotimi Segun
For Bath, I make that
11 first choice starters
2 2nd choice starters
2 3rd choice starter
1.4th choice starting XV - our best of the season - and TBH, both 3rd choicers have earned themselves 2nd choice status by now; but I'll stick with my pre-season pecking order for the time being.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Only the six British & Irish Lions in the Salaries line up then, with a few current internationals on top plus a WC winner on the bench!
[quote Sarriebone][quote BathMatt53]
Annoying that the Bath team is an image so you can't just paste it.[/quote]
Thanks Sarriebone, I'm a total luddite when it comes to anything like this.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Annoying that the Bath team is an image so you can't just paste it.[/quote]
Thanks Sarriebone, I'm a total luddite when it comes to anything like this.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I think we have to accept that the Sarries team is squeaky clean going forward, they would surely not risk any possibility of breaking any rules. If they win, fair play.
At least we won’t be losing to a team that is weaker than Bath on paper which often happens.
Don’t even see a LBP coming from this game, but it will be good being at the Rec watching top class opposition.
Don’t even see a LBP coming from this game, but it will be good being at the Rec watching top class opposition.
Quote:ShortyinBurnham
I still can't understand how that lot is still under the salary cap. That's basically a starting 15 of full internationals.
It doesn't have to be:
- academy credits
- marquees
- international credits
- 25% fudge factor for those on long salaries.
They could be paying out north of £8m and still be compliant this year.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:ShortyinBurnham
I still can't understand how that lot is still under the salary cap. That's basically a starting 15 of full internationals.
I think 11 of our starting 15 have full international caps... 12 if you count Muir's 7's cap. (though actually might be 11 - did TDG actually ever get capped?)
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:ShortyinBurnham
I still can't understand how that lot is still under the salary cap. That's basically a starting 15 of full internationals.
It doesn't have to be:
- academy credits
- marquees
- international credits
- 25% fudge factor for those on long salaries.
They could be paying out north of £8m and still be compliant this year.
Fair enough, but when you compare the number of international caps between the two teams there is a massive difference. Maybe it is just my perception, but I guess they would have to be really daft to break the rules again on the first season back.
As for the Bath team, I really like the look of it, and hopefully we keep playing the way we have in the last couple of games, as it will start to come our way soon! I hope!
Quote:ShortyinBurnhamQuote:BathMatt53Quote:ShortyinBurnham
I still can't understand how that lot is still under the salary cap. That's basically a starting 15 of full internationals.
It doesn't have to be:
- academy credits
- marquees
- international credits
- 25% fudge factor for those on long salaries.
They could be paying out north of £8m and still be compliant this year.
Fair enough, but when you compare the number of international caps between the two teams there is a massive difference. Maybe it is just my perception, but I guess they would have to be really daft to break the rules again on the first season back.
As for the Bath team, I really like the look of it, and hopefully we keep playing the way we have in the last couple of games, as it will start to come our way soon! I hope!
It certainly would be stupid if we broke the rules again........ listening to Jim Hamilton talk to our new Chairman Neil Golding about the clubs restructuring and processes put in place I think it highly unlikely.... if you fancy a listen it's on The Rugby Pod ...and as a bonus there is no Andy Goode on it!!
[www.therugbypod.com]
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Help for Heroes
Well the team psycho will deserve a big bonus if we come within losing bonus point facing that lineup!
But credit to Hoops and co for keeping Max Green in the 23. Many might have thought Simpson's experience could be really handy for Sunday as well as recent inside info on Sarries
But credit to Hoops and co for keeping Max Green in the 23. Many might have thought Simpson's experience could be really handy for Sunday as well as recent inside info on Sarries
A very capable Bath XV but the bench looks light in the forwards. Sarries have yet to find their groove so I will travel in hope but that is conditional upon the penalty count being kept down. If we hand them ball and territory at regualr intervals we'll spend all our time on the back foot and be overpowered. We have the guile and quality to create chances in the back line but must take them when that occurs. Our lineout should hold up but the scrum is a 2nd half worry. I think we will get something out of the game but the bookies are confident of a Sarries win - Oddschecker
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Quote:1876-FezQuote:ShortyinBurnhamQuote:BathMatt53Quote:ShortyinBurnham
I still can't understand how that lot is still under the salary cap. That's basically a starting 15 of full internationals.
It doesn't have to be:
- academy credits
- marquees
- international credits
- 25% fudge factor for those on long salaries.
They could be paying out north of £8m and still be compliant this year.
Fair enough, but when you compare the number of international caps between the two teams there is a massive difference. Maybe it is just my perception, but I guess they would have to be really daft to break the rules again on the first season back.
As for the Bath team, I really like the look of it, and hopefully we keep playing the way we have in the last couple of games, as it will start to come our way soon! I hope!
It certainly would be stupid if we broke the rules again........ listening to Jim Hamilton talk to our new Chairman Neil Golding about the clubs restructuring and processes put in place I think it highly unlikely.... if you fancy a listen it's on The Rugby Pod ...and as a bonus there is no Andy Goode on it!!
[www.therugbypod.com]
thanks 1876-Fez will try and listen to that this weekend at some point. Looking forward to a good game!
I am like which tyler in that I think we have c10-12 'first teamers' ....yet I have zero confidence of getting a result or performance. Let's hope its one of the many times I am wrong....
Experienced 9 (Spencer) + young 10 Bailey was a real drag on our performances last year.
I feel like young 9 with experienced 10 is much more likely to bring our outside backs right into the game.
I feel like young 9 with experienced 10 is much more likely to bring our outside backs right into the game.
Really looking forward to this game and interested to see how Cipriani goes. Is Simpson not with you yet (still with us?) or just not picked for this game? I had thought we might see the old Wasps partnership together. I'm not familiar with your scrum-half, new player or youngster?
All the best for a great game
All the best for a great game
Quote:OldMarovian
Really looking forward to this game and interested to see how Cipriani goes. Is Simpson not with you yet (still with us?) or just not picked for this game? I had thought we might see the old Wasps partnership together. I'm not familiar with your scrum-half, new player or youngster?
All the best for a great game
I think Simpson only started training with us this week so probably a bit of a push to stick him in the 23 ....and a poke in the eye to the existing options.
Fox is 22 I think, joined about 3 seasons ago from Leeds. Eng u20- wasted by us imho to date but getting a run of games now and looks decent if not a future world beater
If you reckon that we had absolutely no luck against Bristol plus crazy refereeing decisions you would expect things to rebound in our favour. Unfortunately I would say that is a step too far against Sarries particularly with the discrepancy up front. It’ll probably be a fair few matches before we get off the bottom if we ever do.
So Sam to get in Faz’s face inside 30secs, (yellow card thank you very much), Will to tell Jamie his throwing isn’t even as good as his scrummaging, Josh to fail to get out of Maro’s way (the cheek of it), the other Josh to make Billy look like a slow fat bloke and Ant to make all their outside backs look what they are - average in a good team.
Bath by 10.
PECK
Bath by 10.
PECK
Quote:sid the seagull
So Sam to get in Faz’s face inside 30secs, (yellow card thank you very much), Will to tell Jamie his throwing isn’t even as good as his scrummaging, Josh to fail to get out of Maro’s way (the cheek of it), the other Josh to make Billy look like a slow fat bloke and Ant to make all their outside backs look what they are - average in a good team.
Bath by 10.
PECK
Been on the fermented apples again, Sid?
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
As I have said, AND NO SILLY PENALTIES!!!
Bit concerned that the Referee isn't that experienced which could of course be an indication of "other people's opinion of the match" .......................................................
Bit concerned that the Referee isn't that experienced which could of course be an indication of "other people's opinion of the match" .......................................................
Quote:annie blackthorn
As I have said, AND NO SILLY PENALTIES!!!
Bit concerned that the Referee isn't that experienced which could of course be an indication of "other people's opinion of the match" .......................................................
Let's be honest about this. You don't lose your discipline if you are in the ascendancy. You stretch the laws because you are forced to. Because you are second best and you are struggling to achieve parity within the laws.
Our discipline in the first games of the season is directly as a result of the pack struggling to achieve parity. They are getting beaten up front.
It's too simplistic to just say "we need to sort out our discipline". It is confusing cause and effect. We need to power up our pack and then our discipline will improve.
Quote:malcoQuote:annie blackthorn
As I have said, AND NO SILLY PENALTIES!!!
Bit concerned that the Referee isn't that experienced which could of course be an indication of "other people's opinion of the match" .......................................................
Let's be honest about this. You don't lose your discipline if you are in the ascendancy. You stretch the laws because you are forced to. Because you are second best and you are struggling to achieve parity within the laws.
That is so true! Our pack has shown in the first 3 matches to be inadequate & we either have to find a canny way of avoiding prolonged scrums as Wasps used to do at their peak or coach the pack to be more resilient. If the latter we are hampered by Hateley not being involved with the area of the game in which he built his reputation.
Our discipline in the first games of the season is directly as a result of the pack struggling to achieve parity. They are getting beaten up front.
It's too simplistic to just say "we need to sort out our discipline". It is confusing cause and effect. We need to power up our pack and then our discipline will improve.
The thing is, the current sanctions mean that props concede penalties and get binned just because they aren't performing as well as their opponents. This is farcical. If you are a wing you don't get penalised for being skinned by your opposite number. If you are a flanker you don't get a yellow for missing a tackle. But if you are a prop and you get turned inside out a couple of times, then off you go and. Utterly ridiculous.
NOt strictly true Malco.
If you're a winger and get skinned by your opponent you hit him early, or hold him back, next time before he gets the ball - and get binned. No different. The big difference is that in the front row you are being illegally beaten by your opponent (boring in, driving at an angle pulling down and all the more modern variations of that) and you get pinged just because the refs arent cute to whats going on. Thats where you front rows have a grievance. And, of course, its an art, propping, and not a science.
OBoutofQuarantine (..... its blookin' cold here)
If you're a winger and get skinned by your opponent you hit him early, or hold him back, next time before he gets the ball - and get binned. No different. The big difference is that in the front row you are being illegally beaten by your opponent (boring in, driving at an angle pulling down and all the more modern variations of that) and you get pinged just because the refs arent cute to whats going on. Thats where you front rows have a grievance. And, of course, its an art, propping, and not a science.
OBoutofQuarantine (..... its blookin' cold here)
Quote:OBinFiji
NOt strictly true Malco.
If you're a winger and get skinned by your opponent you hit him early, or hold him back, next time before he gets the ball - and get binned. No different. The big difference is that in the front row you are being illegally beaten by your opponent (boring in, driving at an angle pulling down and all the more modern variations of that) and you get pinged just because the refs arent cute to whats going on. Thats where you front rows have a grievance. And, of course, its an art, propping, and not a science.
OBoutofQuarantine (..... its blookin' cold here)
That's different though. If as a winger you hit him high or hold him back you are committing an act of foul play. If you are a prop and you do your best but get stuffed in a couple of scrums by someone who isn't doing anything illegal you aren't committing any foul play, you are just guilty of not doing as well as your opponent. But on top of getting bashed you also get penalised and binned.
Let us hope Watson goes looking for the ball, he often seems content to sit out on the wing and for a player of his class he needs to get involved much more. Maybe Cipriani will help intros respect. Saracens are beatable, the players need to believe that and keep going for a full 80 minutes.
Nothing wrong with a nicely rotted Kingston Black.
Oh and Faz next clothesline’s Ojomoh, red this time, Ojo fine and goes on to score a try.
PECKPECKPECK
Oh and Faz next clothesline’s Ojomoh, red this time, Ojo fine and goes on to score a try.
PECKPECKPECK
The refs have no proof whether a prop folds deliberately to avoid conceding ground or whether they can't take the pressure so penalty and card it is.
Not great but what is the alternative? Penalties and no card? That would remove (eventually) the scrum as a feature of the sport.
Would we be discussing this if Bath had a world beating scrum?
Not great but what is the alternative? Penalties and no card? That would remove (eventually) the scrum as a feature of the sport.
Would we be discussing this if Bath had a world beating scrum?
Agree with Malco on this one. In lots of scrums it doesn’t matter too much, because you can put it down to the general lottery of scrum penalties. But when you get a situation where one team concedes a penalty try and a yellow card d because one of their props si getting mullered it’s farcical. My only solution is that you don’t give both.
The scrum should just be a means of restarting the game so -
Alternative: in the event of a collapse both packs to stay bound until Sir says ball is in the hands of the first receiver. That way it is the incentive of both packs to prevent a collapse and/or to strike against the head (remember that?) or shove the oppo off the ball. No penalties to be awarded other than for clear foul play.
HOP
Alternative: in the event of a collapse both packs to stay bound until Sir says ball is in the hands of the first receiver. That way it is the incentive of both packs to prevent a collapse and/or to strike against the head (remember that?) or shove the oppo off the ball. No penalties to be awarded other than for clear foul play.
HOP
Malco - exactly that; it has been the frustrating thing about scrum penalties to me for years - most scrum penalties are because the ‘losing’ side are just not good enough. And that has never seemed right. Penalties should only be for doing something wrong - not just for being less strong!
The whole idea that the "weaker" scrum is infringing is based on a false premise.
Has nobody ever thought that the reason for the "stronger" scrummaging performance may be cheating?
'The Beast' Matwarira v Lions 2009 is a clear case in point. Once refs caught onto his antics the Lions had the better of the scrums in subsequent tests.
PG
Has nobody ever thought that the reason for the "stronger" scrummaging performance may be cheating?
'The Beast' Matwarira v Lions 2009 is a clear case in point. Once refs caught onto his antics the Lions had the better of the scrums in subsequent tests.
PG
Quote:P G Tips
'The Beast' Matwarira v Lions 2009 is a clear case in point. Once refs caught onto his antics the Lions had the better of the scrums in subsequent tests.
PG
Having a proper lock behind the TH in Simon Shaw rather than cap-thief AWJ was a not inconsiderable help too.
Not a fan generally of double jeopardy type scenarios personally. Concession of a try and loss of a man is often too big a swing .. loss of the man then exacerbates the issue and often leads to going down to 13.
Difficult balance but scrummaging seems the most obvious scenario where it is often daft.
I also find it dull when a team lose a few men to collapsed mauls and teams can just kick to within 10 yards and frog march the defence over (definitely not still bitter about bris game).
Difficult balance but scrummaging seems the most obvious scenario where it is often daft.
I also find it dull when a team lose a few men to collapsed mauls and teams can just kick to within 10 yards and frog march the defence over (definitely not still bitter about bris game).
I think it will be very interesting to see how our front 5 go. Lightweight backrow again.
Beno is prob 4th choice eng loosehead. Dunn is prob 4/5th choice eng hooker. Stuart is 2nd choice eng tighthead. Ewels will prob be in eng squad. Mcnally is an eng international.
Sarries pack looks absurdly strong but with our first choice front 5 selected it's a major worry if they are taken apart again and questions need to be asked why the coaches are never getting getting tune out of a decent set of players.
Beno is prob 4th choice eng loosehead. Dunn is prob 4/5th choice eng hooker. Stuart is 2nd choice eng tighthead. Ewels will prob be in eng squad. Mcnally is an eng international.
Sarries pack looks absurdly strong but with our first choice front 5 selected it's a major worry if they are taken apart again and questions need to be asked why the coaches are never getting getting tune out of a decent set of players.
Wind the clock back a few months and we’d have been confident that a front row of Beno, Dunn, Stuart, Ewells, McNally would have caused most teams plenty of problems. Not sure what’s changed but obviously something has. Should be a warm sunny afternoon, plenty of lucky pasties available, and on paper we’ve nothing to lose. Bath to get their noses in front and hang on by 5 points. COYB !!!
I think the final winning margin will largely depend on how Sarries use their scrum dominance, will they cut lose or just bore us to death? Either way I just hope the Bath team play as though they have met before and not just rocked up for runout.
Can't watch on telly so is it likely to be commentated on Radio? Thanks for an answer. (Still behind the sofa though ....................)
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I still think that intense pressure on your line and you give away a penalty and a player is yellow carded is a double punishment.
If you are in that position you should let them score because it is impossible (almost) to stop a properly formed driving maul.
Just like today if I was Ewels I would say to the Ref if they knock on just don't stop the game because awarding a scrum to us will be effectively like giving them a penalty.........
So they knock and as a result get a penalty...................like against Newcastle
If you are in that position you should let them score because it is impossible (almost) to stop a properly formed driving maul.
Just like today if I was Ewels I would say to the Ref if they knock on just don't stop the game because awarding a scrum to us will be effectively like giving them a penalty.........
So they knock and as a result get a penalty...................like against Newcastle
What happened to the fast route 1 out the back of the scrum when you are under pressure?
I appreciate 2 and 8 can be one legged but this was always the go to plan on your own ball in olden days?
Don't seem to see it much these days despite the advantage of the crooked feed?
Or maybe the coaches are in denial about their scrum performance and don't practise it?
I appreciate 2 and 8 can be one legged but this was always the go to plan on your own ball in olden days?
Don't seem to see it much these days despite the advantage of the crooked feed?
Or maybe the coaches are in denial about their scrum performance and don't practise it?
Quote:B4thB4ck
What happened to the fast route 1 out the back of the scrum when you are under pressure?
I appreciate 2 and 8 can be one legged but this was always the go to plan on your own ball in olden days?
Don't seem to see it much these days despite the advantage of the crooked feed?
Or maybe the coaches are in denial about their scrum performance and don't practise it?
Hooper just said that we are still trying to 'find our groove' in the forwards.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:17:15:07:39 by Maeght.
Lots of groans heard from the crowd on the radio.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:17:15:16:51 by Maeght.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:17:15:16:51 by Maeght.
Why didn't we try and sign Borthwick when he was available????
New coach's now. Not interested in giving them more time. Enough is enough
New coach's now. Not interested in giving them more time. Enough is enough
Quote:Bath Blues
Why didn't we try and sign Borthwick when he was available????
New coach's now. Not interested in giving them more time. Enough is enough
Would Borthwick have come? Perhaps we tried. Hooper has to go surely.
We don’t seem to be very good at anything. Admittedly against a good team, but we are third best so far.
Quote:Bath Blues
Why didn't we try and sign Borthwick when he was available????
New coach's now. Not interested in giving them more time. Enough is enough
How much control would Craig give someone like Borthwick?
Started off well, got unlucky not to score 2 or 3 tries. And to concede them so easily.
Since then its been an absolute embarrassment.
Since then its been an absolute embarrassment.
Absolutely - rabbits in headlights and these players should be doing better than this
Quote:malco
This is an absolute embarrassment.
It is not even that good!
Hooper must have an iffy picture of the bosses… there is no other way he can be holding onto his job…
Hooper out NOW!
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Quote:by
Started off well, got unlucky not to score 2 or 3 tries. And to concede them so easily.
Since then its been an absolute embarrassment.
Didn't sound unlucky on the radio commentary. What was unlucky about it?
If we do go on to lose 0-90, do we think that will be enough to finally get rid of Hooper and Hatley?
This is the last straw. Absolutely clueless in all phases of the game. This is the "Bath way" is it Hooper?
The only positive is that two moments of Cipriani "magic" have created two tries.
Brilliant.
The only positive is that two moments of Cipriani "magic" have created two tries.
Brilliant.
Total and utter capitulation against the team who “supposedly “ don’t know how to score tries
Had hoped this would be worst case scenario final score, not half-time!
I think this has to be the end of the coaching regime now. I'd be willing to give Williams time, the rest of them including Harley have presided over this shambles for long enough. If we can't get a director of rugby in straight away then have a caretaker until the end of the season. This really can't carry on anymore
Quote:ken_jnr
If we do go on to lose 0-90, do we think that will be enough to finally get rid of Hooper and Hatley?
I don't understand the Hatley situation. Could he go back to be forwards coach? Probably not if removed as Head Coach.
Incredibly poor. Defence is non existent. Couple of good breaks though from Underhill and Watson. Penalty against Muir was harsh which led to a try but we are being completely outplayed.
Hooper has to go now. Has shown he is not up to standard and unfortunately not good enough.
Hooper has to go now. Has shown he is not up to standard and unfortunately not good enough.
Waiting for the inevitable post match interview.
"We'll take the positives from this and go again next week"...
"We'll take the positives from this and go again next week"...
Needs a wholesale clear out of all management/coaching now and go for broke this season is the only chance as theres no relegation
14 of their points can be attributed to Cipriani alone, I'll be surprised if he appears for the 2nd half.
Quote:MaeghtQuote:ken_jnr
If we do go on to lose 0-90, do we think that will be enough to finally get rid of Hooper and Hatley?
I don't understand the Hatley situation. Could he go back to be forwards coach? Probably not if removed as Head Coach.
Hatley managed to get a good season or so out of our pack in his previous stint, but they went backwards before he left for England which always seems to be forgotten. His second tenure has been dire.
Quote:ken_jnrQuote:MaeghtQuote:ken_jnr
If we do go on to lose 0-90, do we think that will be enough to finally get rid of Hooper and Hatley?
I don't understand the Hatley situation. Could he go back to be forwards coach? Probably not if removed as Head Coach.
Hatley managed to get a good season or so out of our pack in his previous stint, but they went backwards before he left for England which always seems to be forgotten. His second tenure has been dire.
That's true. had forgotten that.
Think about 15 years ago in the Butch James era we were 45-0 ahead of Saracens at HT.
I think that was the worst 40 I’ve ever seen. Our defence - something we’ve all noted on this board has no designated coach - has been unacceptable. No shape, passion, fitness.
For failing to appoint a defence coach alone, Hooper has to go. The rest of them, too. Just awful. If I was there, I’d have left by now.
I think that was the worst 40 I’ve ever seen. Our defence - something we’ve all noted on this board has no designated coach - has been unacceptable. No shape, passion, fitness.
For failing to appoint a defence coach alone, Hooper has to go. The rest of them, too. Just awful. If I was there, I’d have left by now.
Possibly the worst Bath performance in two decades..
No point having good players if the coaches can't prepare them.
Bruce either sacks Hooper and Hatley or opens up the cheque book for a defence coach
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
No point having good players if the coaches can't prepare them.
Bruce either sacks Hooper and Hatley or opens up the cheque book for a defence coach
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
Quote:dr.bath1865
My suggestion: Sack the coaches and make Bayliss captain.
I think Bayliss as Captain would be a good shout. Ewels can't remain as Captain surely.
The title of Castle Grim needs to passed to the Rec, it's grim watching here today
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Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Quote:dr.bath1865
Think about 15 years ago in the Butch James era we were 45-0 ahead of Saracens at HT.
We were, and that was one of the games that inspired me to become a season ticket holder (until this season). For the good of the club the second half needs to go the same way as the first.
Quote:MaeghtQuote:by
Started off well, got unlucky not to score 2 or 3 tries. And to concede them so easily.
Since then its been an absolute embarrassment.
Didn't sound unlucky on the radio commentary. What was unlucky about it?
From watching it on TV, it looked like we were very close to scoring on multiple occasions before being slowed down from cynical fouls.
Quote:byQuote:MaeghtQuote:by
Started off well, got unlucky not to score 2 or 3 tries. And to concede them so easily.
Since then its been an absolute embarrassment.
Didn't sound unlucky on the radio commentary. What was unlucky about it?
From watching it on TV, it looked like we were very close to scoring on multiple occasions before being slowed down from cynical fouls.
Thanks. The radio commentary did question whether we should have had a penalty try at one point but generally put the lack of scoring down to our errors and lack of basic skills.
Quote:MaeghtQuote:Mike the Taxi
TdG try!!! converted
That'll make Saracens focus!
Said more in surprise than pleasure!
Quote:Bath Blues
Get Watson off. Why risk him?
I think playing Watson has been risk over the last few seasons.
Not worth the dent in the salary cap
As for Dimes. We clearly can't get any worse
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
Pretty pathetic that even with all Sarries subs on Bath losing second half 19/7
Pretty pathetic that even with all Sarries subs on Bath losing second half 19/7
I think a few of us will have switched into the Hooper must go immediately camp today.
It's not just embarassing, it's utter humiliation.
I don't recall Bath ever conceding this many.
It's not just embarassing, it's utter humiliation.
I don't recall Bath ever conceding this many.
Quote:recmanQuote:dr.bath1865
Think about 15 years ago in the Butch James era we were 45-0 ahead of Saracens at HT.
We were, and that was one of the games that inspired me to become a season ticket holder (until this season). For the good of the club the second half needs to go the same way as the first.
And, that was the season that triggered the brutal Saracens clearout, which worked a treat. Think on, Bath.
Diamond for me, any time. Although whether he would come here, given that he presumably has more inside knowledge of what is causing "the Bath disease" than we outsiders have, is debatable.
Until today Ive been happy to give Hooper a chance to turn it around but we need changes now else there will be no time to get Bath out of this losing way.
I keep remembering Sam Burgess' comments about the club and certain England players within the club.
The culture is rotten and needs a DoR to get it back on track.
Hooper isn't strong enough to make the hard decisions
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
The culture is rotten and needs a DoR to get it back on track.
Hooper isn't strong enough to make the hard decisions
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
So Sarries have done us a favour in a season with no relegation? Clutching at straws I know....
Hooper's post match interview has made me more angry than the match performance. Trite, empty, witless and pathetic. No honesty, no leadership and an insult to our intelligence and our loyalty. Sickening.
Positives:
First time back at the Rec for 20 months.
Looking forward to the Ladies match.
Negatives:
Everything else.
First time back at the Rec for 20 months.
Looking forward to the Ladies match.
Negatives:
Everything else.
I thought the same so all he's going to do is take a long hard look at themselves!!! We need more than this
Quote:malco
Hooper's post match interview has made me more angry than the match performance. Trite, empty, witless and pathetic. No honesty, no leadership and an insult to our intelligence and our loyalty. Sickening.
What did he say? (I am on caring duties today, didn't see the game). I told my Dad the score, he is 90 and volunteered his services to put things right with his old mate John Palmer.
I’d even be happy with Paul Gustard at the moment..
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
Quote:B4thB4ckQuote:malco
Hooper's post match interview has made me more angry than the match performance. Trite, empty, witless and pathetic. No honesty, no leadership and an insult to our intelligence and our loyalty. Sickening.
What did he say? (I am on caring duties today, didn't see the game). I told my Dad the score, he is 90 and volunteered his services to put things right with his old mate John Palmer.
To paraphrase, we need to take a good look at ourselves and prepare for next week.
Listening to Hooper he is going no where, going to use the pain of today to motivate them!!!
The man's a joke
The man's a joke
I think we are now seeing the true reasons for Brice Craig's campaign to ring fence Premiership.
10 full internationals in the team and shipping 71 points - I think given the performances and especially today Hoops should immediate fall on his sword.
We know that won't happen let's hope holding Coetzee back works eh!
Cannot put Into words how embarrassed and angry I feel at the moment. I would like to say well played Sarries very professional as always and you can only play what is in front of you, tougher challenges to come, good luck for the rest of the season.
10 full internationals in the team and shipping 71 points - I think given the performances and especially today Hoops should immediate fall on his sword.
We know that won't happen let's hope holding Coetzee back works eh!
Cannot put Into words how embarrassed and angry I feel at the moment. I would like to say well played Sarries very professional as always and you can only play what is in front of you, tougher challenges to come, good luck for the rest of the season.
Hooper at least had the guts to front up. That took guts
And more class than many have.
And more class than many have.
There was an incident in the second half where a Sarries player took a Bath player out in the air, he landed on his back. Penalty awarded but it looked like cast iron yellow card from my seat, any ideas why the player wasn’t carded?
Quote:OutsideBath
There was an incident in the second half where a Sarries player took a Bath player out in the air, he landed on his back. Penalty awarded but it looked like cast iron yellow card from my seat, any ideas why the player wasn’t carded?
The Sarries player kept hold of him and placed him safely to the ground. Just a penalty really
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
Conversation between the ref and the TMO was that as soon as he took him in the air, he realised what he had done, and did everything he could to get him down safely. Therefore penalty for tackle in the air, but no further sanction required.
Quote:RampantQuote:OutsideBath
There was an incident in the second half where a Sarries player took a Bath player out in the air, he landed on his back. Penalty awarded but it looked like cast iron yellow card from my seat, any ideas why the player wasn’t carded?
The Sarries player kept hold of him and placed him safely to the ground. Just a penalty really
Interesting, didn’t appear like that in the ground but as the ref (who appeared clueless all day) didn’t review on the big screen so we couldn’t tell.
By the way I’m not for one minute saying the ref influenced our humiliation, that was entirely down to Hooper.
Quote:I believe that was the one where the review showed he was "trying his best to bring the man down safely"OutsideBath
There was an incident in the second half where a Sarries player took a Bath player out in the air, he landed on his back. Penalty awarded but it looked like cast iron yellow card from my seat, any ideas why the player wasn’t carded?
Re Hooper. Frankly I'm amazed he didn't offer an apology to the fans. We've gone nowhere under his leadership, and now going backwards fast. We need change, a pretty damn quick. I know rugby is normally less reactive than football, but frankly DOR and coaches need a big change, and before Christmas.
It was so embarrassing the Sarries supporters even cheered our tries. Just waiting for my email apology from McDonald and Hooper now.
Quote:OutsideBath
There was an incident in the second half where a Sarries player took a Bath player out in the air, he landed on his back. Penalty awarded but it looked like cast iron yellow card from my seat, any ideas why the player wasn’t carded?
I think the reasoning was it was mis-timed so would have been a yellow but he did everything in his power to bring him down safely.
We deserve an explanation, an apology and something to give us some hope for the future. An understanding of what is wrong and some insight into what is being done to repair it.
We got none of that, and that is frankly an insult.
We got none of that, and that is frankly an insult.
It's all about the culture isn't it? There is no dog, no anger, no fear of losing*.
This comes from the top. Perhaps Mr Craig has so much money that he doesn't mind if the team doesn't do well. Perhaps his focus is elsewhere. Mr Hooper clearly doesn't worry about losing his job, nor do some of the big name players. Most at the club seem content to amble along in the Farleigh bubble, with consoling shoulder squeezes, bigging up the latest version of the 'Bath Way' Powerpoint, all safe in the knowledge that there's no relegation this year. It doesn't matter if goes wrong this time, there's always the next match, and the next, and the next.
I did see some good organised rugby today. Saracens calm in defence and attack, confident to slow play down on the break to allowing support players to join, and ruthless - taking the pen to the corner when the first half was over to rub Bath's noses in it and take the score to 45 - 0. Professional. Hard. Confident.
Problem was, I'm not a Sarries supporter. There does not appear to be a vision that the Bath squad have all bought into. Resignation seems to prevail as confidence ebbs away - hands on hips after the first try and no-one taking leadership on the pitch*. Who was captain btw? But what the club hierarchy have perhaps not realised, is that this culture is catching. After 15 years as a season ticket holder, through rain, poor facilities, and endless promises about a new beginning ..... I wonder who the mug is?
How much was it for a a season ticket again?
* With some notable exceptions - in particular the Beechen boys and Horse who seemed to magic our tries out of nothing and kept going to the very end.
This comes from the top. Perhaps Mr Craig has so much money that he doesn't mind if the team doesn't do well. Perhaps his focus is elsewhere. Mr Hooper clearly doesn't worry about losing his job, nor do some of the big name players. Most at the club seem content to amble along in the Farleigh bubble, with consoling shoulder squeezes, bigging up the latest version of the 'Bath Way' Powerpoint, all safe in the knowledge that there's no relegation this year. It doesn't matter if goes wrong this time, there's always the next match, and the next, and the next.
I did see some good organised rugby today. Saracens calm in defence and attack, confident to slow play down on the break to allowing support players to join, and ruthless - taking the pen to the corner when the first half was over to rub Bath's noses in it and take the score to 45 - 0. Professional. Hard. Confident.
Problem was, I'm not a Sarries supporter. There does not appear to be a vision that the Bath squad have all bought into. Resignation seems to prevail as confidence ebbs away - hands on hips after the first try and no-one taking leadership on the pitch*. Who was captain btw? But what the club hierarchy have perhaps not realised, is that this culture is catching. After 15 years as a season ticket holder, through rain, poor facilities, and endless promises about a new beginning ..... I wonder who the mug is?
How much was it for a a season ticket again?
* With some notable exceptions - in particular the Beechen boys and Horse who seemed to magic our tries out of nothing and kept going to the very end.
I'm going to break my self imposed rule and now I'm back from the Rec I will make a comment on the game.
Positives:
- Bath didn't lose by 100
Negatives
- Everything else
The really sad thing was that everyone in the stand around me just found it funny - it was just laughably bad. Not one angry person, a sort of mix of resignation and gallows humour. I'm sure that was mirrored around the country and rightly so, our once great club has become a laughing stock for fans and others alike and enough is enough.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Positives:
- Bath didn't lose by 100
Negatives
- Everything else
The really sad thing was that everyone in the stand around me just found it funny - it was just laughably bad. Not one angry person, a sort of mix of resignation and gallows humour. I'm sure that was mirrored around the country and rightly so, our once great club has become a laughing stock for fans and others alike and enough is enough.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
At least it didn’t rain.
Desperate affairs require desperate measures.
Horatio Nelson
Horatio Nelson
My feelings exactly, Matt. Just as I wasn’t surprised when Mojo made a great break, because he’s a great young player, I wasn’t surprised to look at the scoreboard and we’re 45-0 down at home at half time.
Pathetic. I’m amazed how many were still in the ground when I left with 10 to go, the first time ever. Given the team on paper, the resources etc, something has to change. It’s really boring and sad caring so little about something I used to care so much about.
Pathetic. I’m amazed how many were still in the ground when I left with 10 to go, the first time ever. Given the team on paper, the resources etc, something has to change. It’s really boring and sad caring so little about something I used to care so much about.
Quote:Yeah, your 19 did a good job in correcting his cock up and helping Muir down.Sarriebone
I think the reasoning was it was mis-timed so would have been a yellow but he did everything in his power to bring him down safely.
It’s embarrassing that the Championship teams gave Sarries more competition than we did.
Genuinely amazed I didn’t leave early in a huff. Maybe the years of mediocrity have conditioned me, maybe I don’t care any more, maybe I now fit in the graveyard of ambition that Bath have become.
I've been a Bath supporter for most of my life, and though living abroad for the last 20 odd years, still managed to get over for a few matches each year, but can anyone tell me why I ( and wifey) would fork out for flights, accommodation and transport etc. to watch a performance of that ineptitude?
Quote:recmanQuote:recmanQuote:dr.bath1865
Think about 15 years ago in the Butch James era we were 45-0 ahead of Saracens at HT.
We were, and that was one of the games that inspired me to become a season ticket holder (until this season). For the good of the club the second half needs to go the same way as the first.
And, that was the season that triggered the brutal Saracens clearout, which worked a treat. Think on, Bath.
Diamond for me, any time. Although whether he would come here, given that he presumably has more inside knowledge of what is causing "the Bath disease" than we outsiders have, is debatable.
Diamond can do one. A horrible individual.
Hooper has to go unfortunately.
J
Positives:
- I sold my seat on TX
- I didn't have to battle the Bath traffic
- I didn't have to experience the usual start of season beer supply challenges
Negatives:
- The score line was so much worse than I expected
I'm hoping this was a season low point - fingers crossed
- I sold my seat on TX
- I didn't have to battle the Bath traffic
- I didn't have to experience the usual start of season beer supply challenges
Negatives:
- The score line was so much worse than I expected
I'm hoping this was a season low point - fingers crossed
I’ve constantly defended Hooper & I think a good deal of the criticism has been premature & irrational. However, enough is enough. So much is wrong & seemingly getting worse so changes have to be made now & that means the departure of Hooper & Hateley in my view. We do have to retain Williams though as he has at last brought to life our attacking play. If we keep the status quo supporters will drift away & our youngest & brightest young players will look for pastures new.
Quote:Bath Hammer
I’ve constantly defended Hooper & I think a good deal of the criticism has been premature & irrational. However, enough is enough. So much is wrong & seemingly getting worse so changes have to be made now & that means the departure of Hooper & Hateley in my view. We do have to retain Williams though as he has at last brought to life our attacking play. If we keep the status quo supporters will drift away & our youngest & brightest young players will look for pastures new.
Spot on. Hoops needs to go after than embarrassment. Some players clearly do as well, I know that they were up against some top quality opposition they were totally outclassed. The gap shouldn't be as large as that should it?
On the plus side I can't see too many of that team getting picked for the autumn internationals. Having said that, maybe that's a bad thing for Bath.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I fully expect to get some flack for this but that is a forum after all.
I supported Bath for 25 years. It was the highlight of my weekend popping to the Rec even in the bad weather squeezed in the flowerpots. That of course was a long time ago.
The ground I recognize -but little else. I stuck with my season ticket until 2018.
The "knock-out" blow for me was the Scarlets game. Scarlets played well, but it had that all too familiar feeling of "maybe next season".
The club has:
The great ground in a beautiful city.
A full crowd week after week.
An owner who has spent money on the club.
A purpose-built training facility.
Numerous international players in a decent squad.
and yet? a mid-table team for many seasons.
The club has had all sorts of past coaches and DORs but things don't seem to improve for very long.
I have to wonder if it is not a case of a culture at the Rec of being happy just to qualify for Europe?
I hope BC sorts it out and things improve. It's all there to happen and a change of Coach/DOR can make a drastic difference (Leicester and Quins come to mind).
Good luck with the rest of the season people- it cannot get worse than today.
I supported Bath for 25 years. It was the highlight of my weekend popping to the Rec even in the bad weather squeezed in the flowerpots. That of course was a long time ago.
The ground I recognize -but little else. I stuck with my season ticket until 2018.
The "knock-out" blow for me was the Scarlets game. Scarlets played well, but it had that all too familiar feeling of "maybe next season".
The club has:
The great ground in a beautiful city.
A full crowd week after week.
An owner who has spent money on the club.
A purpose-built training facility.
Numerous international players in a decent squad.
and yet? a mid-table team for many seasons.
The club has had all sorts of past coaches and DORs but things don't seem to improve for very long.
I have to wonder if it is not a case of a culture at the Rec of being happy just to qualify for Europe?
I hope BC sorts it out and things improve. It's all there to happen and a change of Coach/DOR can make a drastic difference (Leicester and Quins come to mind).
Good luck with the rest of the season people- it cannot get worse than today.
It's really quite shocking to me that a scoreline like is happening in the Premiership in 21/22 season, and that's before you even consider the quality of players shipping that
I'm not sure successful 'projects' ever have as low a moment as this.
I've never been one for in season sackings, but the damage to the club as a whole a result like this does is huge. If it happens a couple more times this season, I fear that damage becomes an irreversible rot
I'm not sure successful 'projects' ever have as low a moment as this.
I've never been one for in season sackings, but the damage to the club as a whole a result like this does is huge. If it happens a couple more times this season, I fear that damage becomes an irreversible rot
I think we are in the same situation now Quins were in last season with Gustard.
The players simply do not buy in to the coaching team.
The players we have are too good individually and collectively to perform like that at the Rec against anybody.
Do we have people at the club who have the guts, honesty and vision to face up to this as Quins did last year and force the change that is obviously necessary?
The players simply do not buy in to the coaching team.
The players we have are too good individually and collectively to perform like that at the Rec against anybody.
Do we have people at the club who have the guts, honesty and vision to face up to this as Quins did last year and force the change that is obviously necessary?
I’m not sure we have enough quality in the coaching team in general to do what Quins did. I am also not sure we have the experienced leaders in the team either.
I think we would need to bring someone in and that won’t be easy.
I think we would need to bring someone in and that won’t be easy.
Tough day at the office. Even so I thought Watson, McNally and a few other showed real determination and skill. I hope Watson is ok. I think we got the rub of the green as tends to happen when one side is quite dominant. I also think it's a fair point that Christies contact in the air could have been a yellow another day. I don't think it would have changed the result but when things go against you calls like that can feel especially hard.
I still think you've got some brilliant players especially amongst the youngsters and wish you the best for the rest of the season.
I still think you've got some brilliant players especially amongst the youngsters and wish you the best for the rest of the season.
Quote:BathMatt53
The really sad thing was that everyone in the stand around me just found it funny - it was just laughably bad. Not one angry person, a sort of mix of resignation and gallows humour. I'm sure that was mirrored around the country and rightly so, our once great club has become a laughing stock for fans and others alike and enough is enough.
Laughing stock is about right. Similarly I am not angry or even that despondent tonight. In all honesty just hope it leads to some significant change, and glad that this was a week I chose to stay home with my daughter rather than go. Although because she napped through the game I did unfortunately get to watch it all
I honestly do like.Hoops but he has been set up for failure. He does need to go as does Tarquim Mcdonald who as the CEO has managed to slyly avoid any blame despite being in control of contracts and recruitment.
As for a replacement we missed the boat with Borthwick, but I am a form believer in Hatley if he is allowed to concentrate on his place of expertise, along with Charteris and Williams the rest need to go with immediate affect. We need to lure someone like Chieka, Steve Hampson or even Nick.Mallet so.eone with a proven track record. It has to happen now or we will lose our younc talent and any other decent player we have.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:17:19:33:00 by Ali1969.
As for a replacement we missed the boat with Borthwick, but I am a form believer in Hatley if he is allowed to concentrate on his place of expertise, along with Charteris and Williams the rest need to go with immediate affect. We need to lure someone like Chieka, Steve Hampson or even Nick.Mallet so.eone with a proven track record. It has to happen now or we will lose our younc talent and any other decent player we have.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:17:19:33:00 by Ali1969.
So we are all in agreement that the coaching team needs to change.
But who realistically can we get at short notice?
Steve Diamond. Paul Gustard. Vern Cotter, Johan
Ackerman?
Not sure anyone else would be here before January.
Do we wait?
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
But who realistically can we get at short notice?
Steve Diamond. Paul Gustard. Vern Cotter, Johan
Ackerman?
Not sure anyone else would be here before January.
Do we wait?
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
Stuart Hooper “It’s gone really badly today “……………No ssssss Sherlock !
Oh dear !
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Oh dear !
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
71 points against at home.
After years of careful strategy, huge investment and the ‘Bath culture’ there is no viable excuse.
End it now please, I don’t even care if there isn’t a Plan B.
The DoR and coaches are all real people with families and mortgages so be kind but prolonging this is unacceptable on every level.
PECK
After years of careful strategy, huge investment and the ‘Bath culture’ there is no viable excuse.
End it now please, I don’t even care if there isn’t a Plan B.
The DoR and coaches are all real people with families and mortgages so be kind but prolonging this is unacceptable on every level.
PECK
The sad fact is that no top name coach would consider coming to Bath without having guarantees that they would be able to work with complete freedom.
This is why Tabai Matson is head coach of Quins and not Bath.
This is why Tabai Matson is head coach of Quins and not Bath.
Keep Williams and Charteris. Only keep Hatley if he returns to scrum coach, but not sure even then it's worth keeping him.
No coaching couldn't be any worse than today.
Captain also needs to change, Ewells just doesn't seem able to get the refs on side.
I was fuming for 36 hours after the robbery at Bristol, but as other have said above, feel nothing about today, bar maybe sadness.
Bruce cannot sit back and do nothing after today.
No coaching couldn't be any worse than today.
Captain also needs to change, Ewells just doesn't seem able to get the refs on side.
I was fuming for 36 hours after the robbery at Bristol, but as other have said above, feel nothing about today, bar maybe sadness.
Bruce cannot sit back and do nothing after today.
I will always be a Bath fan but unless there are changes from the top down I will take a break from watching them this season. Just too painful to see the team I love play without any direction. I have no doubt the players are trying but that was a hard watch, couldn't blame the likes of Watson, Underhill wanting to leave.
Embarrassing.
Embarrassing.
Quote:Ali1969
I honestly do like.Hoops but he has been set up for failure. He does need to go as does Tarquim Mcdonald who as the CEO has managed to slyly avoid any blame despite being in control of contracts and recruitment.
As for a replacement we missed the boat with Borthwick, but I am a form believer in Hatley if he is allowed to concentrate on his place of expertise, along with Charteris and Williams the rest need to go with immediate affect. We need to lure someone like Chieka, Steve Hampson or even Nick.Mallet so.eone with a proven track record. It has to happen now or we will lose our younc talent and any other decent player we have.
I can’t agree with that assessment I’m afraid. Tarquin manages the Club very effectively & cannot be held responsible for the playing side. On the contrary, Hateley is the head coach. In my view he carries the most responsibility, though he might have been placed in a difficult situation by the DOR so both are culpable.
Quote:Bath Hammer
I can’t agree with that assessment I’m afraid. Tarquin manages the Club very effectively & cannot be held responsible for the playing side. On the contrary, Hateley is the head coach. In my view he carries the most responsibility, though he might have been placed in a difficult situation by the DOR so both are culpable.
I agree. Tarquin is actually good at managing the club off the pitch. It’s on it that is the issue.
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
Quote:malco
The sad fact is that no top name coach would consider coming to Bath without having guarantees that they would be able to work with complete freedom.
This is why Tabai Matson is head coach of Quins and not Bath.
I hear lots about Bruce's meddling?
What form does it take?
Assume he isn't putting the trackie on at Farleigh, giving the team talk at half time....
I am not doubting its an issue as many well informed people say it is but don't understand how it is such as issue.
Clearly some sh**e appointments on the coaching front but what does he actually do in terms of his 'meddling' that people seem to lay all our problems at his door?
As I say genuinely interested as I have zero inside line on this
Just watched the game. I thought I'd get it over with early so I could get on with the rest of my day. First up, Salaries were just outstanding. They had one of "those" days and I doubt if there is any team in the Prem that could have lived with them today.
But... in the first half, that looked like a professional outfit playing against amateurs. We have good individual players but we don't have a good team and that is down to the coaches. Bruce has decisions to make if this season is going to turn out to be the bottom of the 20 year curve.
MotM. Not today.
And Bath looked beautiful in the sunshine, so there's that.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
But... in the first half, that looked like a professional outfit playing against amateurs. We have good individual players but we don't have a good team and that is down to the coaches. Bruce has decisions to make if this season is going to turn out to be the bottom of the 20 year curve.
MotM. Not today.
And Bath looked beautiful in the sunshine, so there's that.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:malco
Hooper's post match interview has made me more angry than the match performance. Trite, empty, witless and pathetic. No honesty, no leadership and an insult to our intelligence and our loyalty. Sickening.
He was talking about everyone being heartened by the bris game and the performance.
Kidding himself, I was thinking how have we managed to lose the game from a strong position against a hopelessly out of sorts bris team.
My only hope and enthusiasm stems from maybe this driving some meaningful change. I hate wanting someone to lose their job, it feels horrid... but the BT guys were right, we are poor and getting worse and that good players need good coaching and leadership. We are completely lacking either and it's rubbish to think of all the promising young talent we are ruining.
Before Covid lockdown we were in a similar mess. To be fair to Hooper, we came back firing and he was redeemed. Once more the gun is at his head - but this time it will be a huge challenge for Bath to win a game until after Christmas. I'd say he's cooked.
The boys looked so soft or there today. It was a sad day for the city.
The boys looked so soft or there today. It was a sad day for the city.
Quote:charlieboaQuote:malco
The sad fact is that no top name coach would consider coming to Bath without having guarantees that they would be able to work with complete freedom.
This is why Tabai Matson is head coach of Quins and not Bath.
I hear lots about Bruce's meddling?
What form does it take?
Assume he isn't putting the trackie on at Farleigh, giving the team talk at half time....
I am not doubting its an issue as many well informed people say it is but don't understand how it is such as issue.
Clearly some sh**e appointments on the coaching front but what does he actually do in terms of his 'meddling' that people seem to lay all our problems at his door?
As I say genuinely interested as I have zero inside line on this
I heard the same about Matson, 2nd hand from a good source in the squad but if you look at it now that is one person's view and one persons problem. Is it a problem for the other coaches? Is it regular? We don't know, but although Matson left it isn't necessarily a key reason for the team to play badly.
We never got what we would consider to be a good head coach that would drive the team and gave respect. Hats was pushed into that role to the detriment of his skills.
I did bump into Borthers socially a few years ago and suggested he should be HC at Bath. He laughed.
Quote:dannyf2
Before Covid lockdown we were in a similar mess. To be fair to Hooper, we came back firing and he was redeemed. Once more the gun is at his head - but this time it will be a huge challenge for Bath to win a game until after Christmas. I'd say he's cooked.
The boys looked so soft or there today. It was a sad day for the city.
I'm sorry but I don't agree with that at all. Sure, before Covid lockdown we were in a similar mess. Then there was the restart where Bath had favourable fixtures and put out a first team against others (such as Tigers) who used their entire squad as there was no relegation. Then they sneaked into the top 4 because of Covid at Sale and were destroyed in the semi 35-6. Then coming 7th last season after benefiting from a couple of covid cancellations against Irish and Glos. Hooper was never redeemed, he just bought himself a bit more time.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
First game in 3 years and my last. Why would I spend money on this complete shower when there are so many more worthwhile things to do with my time and money.
The club clearly don't realise they are in competition with other sports/leisure options.
Pathetic on and off the pitch.
The club clearly don't realise they are in competition with other sports/leisure options.
Pathetic on and off the pitch.
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:dannyf2
Before Covid lockdown we were in a similar mess. To be fair to Hooper, we came back firing and he was redeemed. Once more the gun is at his head - but this time it will be a huge challenge for Bath to win a game until after Christmas. I'd say he's cooked.
The boys looked so soft or there today. It was a sad day for the city.
I'm sorry but I don't agree with that at all. Sure, before Covid lockdown we were in a similar mess. Then there was the restart where Bath had favourable fixtures and put out a first team against others (such as Tigers) who used their entire squad as there was no relegation. Then they sneaked into the top 4 because of Covid at Sale and were destroyed in the semi 35-6. Then coming 7th last season after benefiting from a couple of covid cancellations against Irish and Glos. Hooper was never redeemed, he just bought himself a bit more time.
That aligns with my memory.
We may briefly turn it around with a few decent results at some point but it feels inevitable we will be back getting trounced again by someone soon enough.
Rumour from PlanetRugby that Lancaster is coming, can’t see it myself, who would want to come to Bath at the moment?
[www.thetimes.co.uk]
The Steve diamond rumours begin.
I actually don't think it's it's that bad a fit.
Thoroughly unpleasant man I have often thought but imagine a very horrid few years in his personal life have probably offered some perspective.
Also kind of think a hard nosed , edgy, tough bloke is maybe what we need.
I also think Dean Ryan has mellowed from lunatic to very astute thinker on the game.
The Steve diamond rumours begin.
I actually don't think it's it's that bad a fit.
Thoroughly unpleasant man I have often thought but imagine a very horrid few years in his personal life have probably offered some perspective.
Also kind of think a hard nosed , edgy, tough bloke is maybe what we need.
I also think Dean Ryan has mellowed from lunatic to very astute thinker on the game.
Quote:BathMatt53
I'm going to break my self imposed rule and now I'm back from the Rec I will make a comment on the game.
Positives:
- Bath didn't lose by 100
Negatives
- Everything else
The really sad thing was that everyone in the stand around me just found it funny - it was just laughably bad. Not one angry person, a sort of mix of resignation and gallows humour. I'm sure that was mirrored around the country and rightly so, our once great club has become a laughing stock for fans and others alike and enough is enough.
+1
All of us we laughing at how inept agh are in every department and I really didn’t care what the final score was.
If Hooper really cares about Bath rugby he will resign.
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:Ali1969
I honestly do like.Hoops but he has been set up for failure. He does need to go as does Tarquim Mcdonald who as the CEO has managed to slyly avoid any blame despite being in control of contracts and recruitment.
As for a replacement we missed the boat with Borthwick, but I am a form believer in Hatley if he is allowed to concentrate on his place of expertise, along with Charteris and Williams the rest need to go with immediate affect. We need to lure someone like Chieka, Steve Hampson or even Nick.Mallet so.eone with a proven track record. It has to happen now or we will lose our younc talent and any other decent player we have.
I can’t agree with that assessment I’m afraid. Tarquin manages the Club very effectively & cannot be held responsible for the playing side. On the contrary, Hateley is the head coach. In my view he carries the most responsibility, though he might have been placed in a difficult situation by the DOR so both are culpable.
Yet the CEO is responsible for the appointment of the DoR and oversees all contracts and recruitment as per job description.
Bath Hammer that is the beauty of democracy we can all agree or disagree with each others comments but at the end of the day we all wan the same a club we can feel proud of - at present we are a long way short of that.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:17:21:05:54 by Ali1969.
That was bad a Bath performance as I’ve ever seen. I think most stayed to the bitter end as they were aware they were seeing history being made … “Bath’s lowest ebb” … well hopefully anyway.
At half time 45 nil down and looking like we were likely to concede another 45 it was telling that Hooper ambled off chatting to one of the other coaches and seemingly in no hurry to talk to the team about what had gone wrong. Surely time for changing of the guard ?
At half time 45 nil down and looking like we were likely to concede another 45 it was telling that Hooper ambled off chatting to one of the other coaches and seemingly in no hurry to talk to the team about what had gone wrong. Surely time for changing of the guard ?
Quote:charlieboa
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bath-steamrolled-by-fired-up-saracens-as-they-unleash-ten-try-onslaught-mrw7q3wvw?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1634495679
The Steve diamond rumours begin.
I actually don't think it's it's that bad a fit.
At least with Diamond, if we were bad we'd be bad in a different way than the soul sapping, couldn't care less way we've got used to for many years, and we'd go down with a fight rather than a mute whimper.
Quote:BathMatt53
I
The really sad thing was that everyone in the stand around me just found it funny - it was just laughably bad. Not one angry person, a sort of mix of resignation and gallows humour. I'm sure that was mirrored around the country and rightly so, our once great club has become a laughing stock for fans and others alike and enough is enough.
TBF Matt, a lot of that (at least around me) was that Bath were not going to get a moment’s luck from that game - while mearly everything Sarries touched turned to gold.
Yes - it was a woeful performance, but the humour did not, IMHO, reflect a lack of concern from the Bath faithful.
PG
Diamond has won jack all.
Hooper and Hatley (and Lilley) are done. They have to go.
Lancaster didn't exactly feel like a massive change of energy.
Hooper and Hatley (and Lilley) are done. They have to go.
Lancaster didn't exactly feel like a massive change of energy.
I was there today with my daughter for her 1st live games. She enjoyed both games and met Sam Underhill afterwards - who approached us to talk after seeing us looking over. Fair play to him, it can't be easy being social with supporters after such a loss.
I can understand the calls for a change of Captain, but let's change it for the right reasons.
I actually feel for Ewels. It cannot be easy to maintain your own form when the team you are responsible continually underperforms and you have to firefight constantly. He is not a bad player, he's actually bloody good - yes he doesn't do the eye catching Itoje stuff, he's not a beast like Ezebeth, but he is a damn good lock. His problem, he's playing like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders - just look at his own discipline last year, just trying too hard.
Let's remove the captaincy from him, not as a punishment, but to take the pressure off of him. He's still got plenty of years left with us, let's get the best out of him. Or he'll end up leaving and another team will.make the most of him.
Move the captaincy to someone else who will command their own position regularly and are experienced.
Bayliss I've seen mentioned, but I feel he may end up being another "Ewels", lots of potential as a captain, but not the tools to really make it work and too young to bear the weight of this burden.
So who?
Underhill? Smart player, leads from the front and genuinely international class. Will be around for a while yet. Maybe.
I would have said Mercer if he was still with us.
I cannot see anyone else in the forwards that would still be with us for a few years yet.
What about the backs? Spencer is clear first choice at nine, but can he command the team and drive the team to a higher level? I'm not sure. Maybe.
None of the other backs stand out to me - Joesph and Watson are the only ones with the experience, but neither strike me as a leader of the group.
And this is probably the crux of our problem with our team - a lack of leaders or that mentality.
I can understand the calls for a change of Captain, but let's change it for the right reasons.
I actually feel for Ewels. It cannot be easy to maintain your own form when the team you are responsible continually underperforms and you have to firefight constantly. He is not a bad player, he's actually bloody good - yes he doesn't do the eye catching Itoje stuff, he's not a beast like Ezebeth, but he is a damn good lock. His problem, he's playing like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders - just look at his own discipline last year, just trying too hard.
Let's remove the captaincy from him, not as a punishment, but to take the pressure off of him. He's still got plenty of years left with us, let's get the best out of him. Or he'll end up leaving and another team will.make the most of him.
Move the captaincy to someone else who will command their own position regularly and are experienced.
Bayliss I've seen mentioned, but I feel he may end up being another "Ewels", lots of potential as a captain, but not the tools to really make it work and too young to bear the weight of this burden.
So who?
Underhill? Smart player, leads from the front and genuinely international class. Will be around for a while yet. Maybe.
I would have said Mercer if he was still with us.
I cannot see anyone else in the forwards that would still be with us for a few years yet.
What about the backs? Spencer is clear first choice at nine, but can he command the team and drive the team to a higher level? I'm not sure. Maybe.
None of the other backs stand out to me - Joesph and Watson are the only ones with the experience, but neither strike me as a leader of the group.
And this is probably the crux of our problem with our team - a lack of leaders or that mentality.
Quote:charlieboaQuote:BathMatt53Quote:dannyf2
Before Covid lockdown we were in a similar mess. To be fair to Hooper, we came back firing and he was redeemed. Once more the gun is at his head - but this time it will be a huge challenge for Bath to win a game until after Christmas. I'd say he's cooked.
The boys looked so soft or there today. It was a sad day for the city.
I'm sorry but I don't agree with that at all. Sure, before Covid lockdown we were in a similar mess. Then there was the restart where Bath had favourable fixtures and put out a first team against others (such as Tigers) who used their entire squad as there was no relegation. Then they sneaked into the top 4 because of Covid at Sale and were destroyed in the semi 35-6. Then coming 7th last season after benefiting from a couple of covid cancellations against Irish and Glos. Hooper was never redeemed, he just bought himself a bit more time.
That aligns with my memory.
We may briefly turn it around with a few decent results at some point but it feels inevitable we will be back getting trounced again by someone soon enough.
Well if this is the common view, he really is doomed. Shame - because I think he is a good man, but elevated beyond his current capabilities.
Been there and done that. We were a team defeated after the first try. No confidence, no leaders, no clue. I do feel the team lack direction and maybe mixed messages are being communicated from Hoops and his team. They clearly are not able to turn this group into a winning combination and something has to give.
Succession planning has to take place before too long.
Succession planning has to take place before too long.
Defence. Scrum. Maul. Discipline. Leadership.
Hooper. Hatley. Lilley.
Have to go.
Hooper. Hatley. Lilley.
Have to go.
Quote:hasta
Defence. Scrum. Maul. Discipline. Leadership.
Hooper. Hatley. Lilley.
Have to go.
Line out wasn’t good either and attack was pretty well non existent until the last 10 mins! Everyone should go but who will replace them?
Quote:CoochieCooQuote:hasta
Defence. Scrum. Maul. Discipline. Leadership.
Hooper. Hatley. Lilley.
Have to go.
Line out wasn’t good either and attack was pretty well non existent until the last 10 mins! Everyone should go but who will replace them?
The Ladies team! They were pretty good and looked better drilled.
Quote:BathSalmonQuote:CoochieCooQuote:hasta
Defence. Scrum. Maul. Discipline. Leadership.
Hooper. Hatley. Lilley.
Have to go.
Line out wasn’t good either and attack was pretty well non existent until the last 10 mins! Everyone should go but who will replace them?
The Ladies team! They were pretty good and looked better drilled.
Ok get all the coaches of the ladies to coach the men’s team!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:17:21:57:38 by CoochieCoo.
It feels like we are on to succession planning already. Hooper and co may stay until the end of the season just because then you have more chance of replacing them then with available options I am convinced though he is finished.
I'm sure I will get shot down for a lot of these suggestions
I'd love the Meehan days back as it was always entertaining and we were actually pretty good then. He is assistant coach at Toulon so maybe a possibility. I'd happily have Lancaster but not sure he'd come. Maybe Foley? I've always thought he got Australia playing better than the sum of their parts. Cockerill I would actually like to see here. Did well at Edinburgh.
Maybe we could poach from another prem side, kidney or Richards maybe? Or an assistant like walder or vesty who are doing well, but possibly wouldn't be director of rugby or head coach material. I'm sure there are plenty of options out there. Many that I have never heard of
I don't like the idea of diamond. Not a particular pleasant character and I think too divisive to be successful
I'm sure I will get shot down for a lot of these suggestions
I'd love the Meehan days back as it was always entertaining and we were actually pretty good then. He is assistant coach at Toulon so maybe a possibility. I'd happily have Lancaster but not sure he'd come. Maybe Foley? I've always thought he got Australia playing better than the sum of their parts. Cockerill I would actually like to see here. Did well at Edinburgh.
Maybe we could poach from another prem side, kidney or Richards maybe? Or an assistant like walder or vesty who are doing well, but possibly wouldn't be director of rugby or head coach material. I'm sure there are plenty of options out there. Many that I have never heard of
I don't like the idea of diamond. Not a particular pleasant character and I think too divisive to be successful
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:RampantQuote:OutsideBath
There was an incident in the second half where a Sarries player took a Bath player out in the air, he landed on his back. Penalty awarded but it looked like cast iron yellow card from my seat, any ideas why the player wasn’t carded?
The Sarries player kept hold of him and placed him safely to the ground. Just a penalty really
Interesting, didn’t appear like that in the ground but as the ref (who appeared clueless all day) didn’t review on the big screen so we couldn’t tell.
By the way I’m not for one minute saying the ref influenced our humiliation, that was entirely down to Hooper.
Ref had a good game. We were the clueless ones
Quote:Gaz59
Ref had a good game. We were the clueless ones
No argument that we weren’t dreadful but I certainly didn’t see the ref as having a good game either. There was one particularly irksome point where Sarries, 50 points plus up at this point ambled over to the line out, taking a good thirty seconds to get there completely oblivious to the paying supporter. Having got there in there own sweet time the ref then immediately gave a free kick against Bath for closing the gap, despite us having been in place waiting for a good 30 seconds. Technically correct possibly, lacking any empathy with the game, certainly.
Quote:BeergogglesQuote:Gaz59
Ref had a good game. We were the clueless ones
No argument that we weren’t dreadful but I certainly didn’t see the ref as having a good game either. There was one particularly irksome point where Sarries, 50 points plus up at this point ambled over to the line out, taking a good thirty seconds to get there completely oblivious to the paying supporter. Having got there in there own sweet time the ref then immediately gave a free kick against Bath for closing the gap, despite us having been in place waiting for a good 30 seconds. Technically correct possibly, lacking any empathy with the game, certainly.
Is that the biggest mistake he made?
50 points difference in the game and he takes a bit longer to get a lineout started, which by the way we were losing several of our own throws
He had a decent game. We were shocking
Quote:Beergoggles
There was one particularly irksome point where Sarries, 50 points plus up at this point ambled over to the line out, taking a good thirty seconds to get there completely oblivious to the paying supporter. Having got there in there own sweet time the ref then immediately gave a free kick against Bath for closing the gap, despite us having been in place waiting for a good 30 seconds. Technically correct possibly, lacking any empathy with the game, certainly.
Some might argue he was being empathetic. Hurrying a rampant Sarries along when Bath were struggling to get to their knees could be viewed as being a little over zealous in the circumstances.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:17:23:18:21 by Smyler.
Quote:gaz59Quote:BeergogglesQuote:Gaz59
Ref had a good game. We were the clueless ones
No argument that we weren’t dreadful but I certainly didn’t see the ref as having a good game either. There was one particularly irksome point where Sarries, 50 points plus up at this point ambled over to the line out, taking a good thirty seconds to get there completely oblivious to the paying supporter. Having got there in there own sweet time the ref then immediately gave a free kick against Bath for closing the gap, despite us having been in place waiting for a good 30 seconds. Technically correct possibly, lacking any empathy with the game, certainly.
Is that the biggest mistake he made?
50 points difference in the game and he takes a bit longer to get a lineout started, which by the way we were losing several of our own throws
He had a decent game. We were shocking
There were a couple of early decisions we didn't get but after that we could have had Flats on the whistle and it woudln't have made a difference.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Bath Hammer that is the beauty of democracy we can all agree or disagree with each others comments but at the end of the day we all wan the same a club we can feel proud of - at present we are a long way short of that.[/quote]
Without doubt we can agree on that.
Without doubt we can agree on that.
Saracens are miles ahead of us in all facets and I can accept that. What I CANNOT accept is players ducking out of tackles, not dropping onto a bouncing ball when you are the nearest too it and being physically bullied in mauls and the breakdown.
I am guessing that these shortfalls come from the culture and leadership as we have a excellent squad. Always backed whoever has been in charge but now for the good of the club we need a change. If that means Hooper and Hatley so be it. When you look around and see what Quins, Tigers and Wasps have become since they changed the coaches it really is a no brainer now.
I really wonder what Bruce Craig must be thinking?.....
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
I am guessing that these shortfalls come from the culture and leadership as we have a excellent squad. Always backed whoever has been in charge but now for the good of the club we need a change. If that means Hooper and Hatley so be it. When you look around and see what Quins, Tigers and Wasps have become since they changed the coaches it really is a no brainer now.
I really wonder what Bruce Craig must be thinking?.....
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Quote:hasta
Defence. Scrum. Maul. Discipline. Leadership.
Hooper. Hatley. Lilley.
Have to go.
Hooper has to go first as he appointed them along with an attack coach with no ideas and ignoring the need for an experienced defence coach, we’d be better off going the rest of this season with no DOR.
Sitting in the sun on a warm October afternoon, looking around at the beauty of Bath and watching a really well coached team play great rugby - what was there not to like? Bath, who seem to spend more attention to PR than the rugby keep asking for more noise, from where I sat the sound of laughter seemed louder than I can ever remember
Might just be my feed but I'm sure the official bath Facebook page has removed all evidence of yesterday!
Hooper out.
Hooper out.
Those who thought the ref had a good game probably didn’t have ref link. Ok it didn’t affect the result and he hasn’t reffed many premiership games but he was virtually silent for long periods and when he did speak it wasn’t great. E.g after a particularly messy scrum collapse he reset with “same again lads”. After 5 successive penalties against Sarries in the red zone was anything said? Any action taken or even threatened?
Yes I have been a ref at junior level albeit not in rugby and it is a thankless task people who want to do it are rare and people who are good at it and can afford to spend the time to get to top level are even more scarce. But in a professional sport we cannot afford to have “amateur “ refs. Perhaps if they were better remunerated and trained especially in communication the standard overall would improve.
Yes I have been a ref at junior level albeit not in rugby and it is a thankless task people who want to do it are rare and people who are good at it and can afford to spend the time to get to top level are even more scarce. But in a professional sport we cannot afford to have “amateur “ refs. Perhaps if they were better remunerated and trained especially in communication the standard overall would improve.
Quote:BeergogglesQuote:Gaz59
Ref had a good game. We were the clueless ones
No argument that we weren’t dreadful but I certainly didn’t see the ref as having a good game either. There was one particularly irksome point where Sarries, 50 points plus up at this point ambled over to the line out, taking a good thirty seconds to get there completely oblivious to the paying supporter. Having got there in there own sweet time the ref then immediately gave a free kick against Bath for closing the gap, despite us having been in place waiting for a good 30 seconds. Technically correct possibly, lacking any empathy with the game, certainly.
Agreed. Saracens were ruthless, clinical, exact, accurate -that is why they won. Bath were none of those things so Saracens deserved a high score, large margin win.
However, the ref allowed far too many forward passes (including leading to tries) and was lax in treatment of offside. I know he is not alone in weakness on those two laws, but that does not make it right. There were some pretty debatable penalties at scrum and breakdown too.
PG
The Club had a bad day not only on the field. My digital ticket wouldn’t work and the plastic card ticket didn’t work either. Had to stand by for a steward to wave me through!
No club wifi available and the 4G in the South Stand wasn’t up to the job. Lot of broken things to mend Tarquin!
No club wifi available and the 4G in the South Stand wasn’t up to the job. Lot of broken things to mend Tarquin!
Quote:CoochieCoo
Sorry Hats but I don't doubt the intent and the honesty at looking at what went wrong either but those are not the real questions for you and Hooper. The critical questions are a) do you have the ability to put these things right and b) can you do that quickly enough?
If I was in charge I would just sit the players down and talk it through. There must be a 2 way conversation around what have the coaches got wrong? Were the players over coached, is there muddled thinking, what would the players want to see happen?
If you take that group of players and said nothing to them all week before the game would they have played better?
There are often comments about Bath looking like they just met before the game but I think mixed messages or over coaching can result in the same effect.
If you take that group of players and said nothing to them all week before the game would they have played better?
There are often comments about Bath looking like they just met before the game but I think mixed messages or over coaching can result in the same effect.
Bris supporter not looking for trouble!
Pat has got a lot wrong atm including his poor recruitment over the last 2 seasons...that said, I feel he'll find a way to fix it.
What I don't understand is how Bath have continued on the road of mediocrity with yesterday being horrendous.
I personally think you have a better overall squad than Bristol, yet it never seems to come good.
Looking in, I have to say I'm not at all impressed with Hooper. He tries to build up the team but clearly can't deliver on the training park with his coaches.
Ryan Davies has been trying to implement a more varied attack in your backs, and when they get go forward ball, they look dangerous - so clearly he has the ability.
The problem is, that ball and the overall game plan seems messy most of the time.
I'd also suggest that some of the "regulars" have stagnated or regressed.
Unfortunately it all seems to stem from the top and therein lies your dilemma.
Without Bruce's millions the club would struggle but his apparent interference causes issues (as does his DoR hiring policy).
I know there was opposition on here to the idea of Diamond (and I understand why), but it may need someone of his strength of character to turn it around.
Yes men like Hooper just won't work with a hierarchy such as yours.
Anyway, hope it gets sorted.
Pat has got a lot wrong atm including his poor recruitment over the last 2 seasons...that said, I feel he'll find a way to fix it.
What I don't understand is how Bath have continued on the road of mediocrity with yesterday being horrendous.
I personally think you have a better overall squad than Bristol, yet it never seems to come good.
Looking in, I have to say I'm not at all impressed with Hooper. He tries to build up the team but clearly can't deliver on the training park with his coaches.
Ryan Davies has been trying to implement a more varied attack in your backs, and when they get go forward ball, they look dangerous - so clearly he has the ability.
The problem is, that ball and the overall game plan seems messy most of the time.
I'd also suggest that some of the "regulars" have stagnated or regressed.
Unfortunately it all seems to stem from the top and therein lies your dilemma.
Without Bruce's millions the club would struggle but his apparent interference causes issues (as does his DoR hiring policy).
I know there was opposition on here to the idea of Diamond (and I understand why), but it may need someone of his strength of character to turn it around.
Yes men like Hooper just won't work with a hierarchy such as yours.
Anyway, hope it gets sorted.
I mentioned elsewhere, how real is this supposed interference from Bruce? There are only rumours about Matson, what other evidence is there? It would need to be quite active and regular to be a big reason for P4 L4, or is it just a snow balling myth from a few years ago?
B4B
I think the latter.
Bruce was very "hands on" when he first arrived but Gary Gold persuaded him to be less involved.
The rumours about were not, I think, about Bruce, but more vaguely about "off-field" interference. There was no evidence to support them.
PG
I think the latter.
Bruce was very "hands on" when he first arrived but Gary Gold persuaded him to be less involved.
The rumours about were not, I think, about Bruce, but more vaguely about "off-field" interference. There was no evidence to support them.
PG
17-71 and the ref gets a good the dollop of the Bath fan blame. Some fans are just stomping the victimisation and denial furrows and bellowing at the moon.
We were crushed. Shredded. Humiliated.
Either laugh, leave or lament.
Resignation will follow.
We were crushed. Shredded. Humiliated.
Either laugh, leave or lament.
Resignation will follow.
Does it matter? I am sure Mr Craig loves his rugby but not above all else.
Has anyone said the ref had anything to do with the scoreline, let alone the result? The shellacking doesn't mean people can't discuss the ref's performance.
Quote:Deckchair
17-71 and the ref gets a good the dollop of the Bath fan blame. Some fans are just stomping the victimisation and denial furrows and bellowing at the moon.
We were crushed. Shredded. Humiliated.
Either laugh, leave or lament.
Resignation will follow.
There is absolutely no chance of resignations, the coaching setup is in total denial.
Thinking of the positives though, I thought Tom De Glanville was excellent yesterday and pretty much the only Bath player to warrant a mark of more than 5 out of 10.
As a Saracens fan, I can honestly say I didn't take full pleasure in that victory, it was an uncomfortable watch. Really hope whatever the problems you have there can be rectified and the season improves for you from here. Hopefully welcome some of you to the StoneX in Feb. There's a possibility that match could be the first to use the seating in the new West Stand. All the best.
Agree, OB. He was excellent under the high ball – just a shame none of his teammates bothered to work back to stop him getting turned over.
I thought Mojo was pretty good, too. For a young lad, facing that onslaught, he didn't let anyone down in defence and, more often than most, offered something in attack.
If we were rubbish on paper, it would be a bit less disappointing. But the fact we have all of this young talent makes the lack of team cohesion and spirit completely unacceptable.
I thought Mojo was pretty good, too. For a young lad, facing that onslaught, he didn't let anyone down in defence and, more often than most, offered something in attack.
If we were rubbish on paper, it would be a bit less disappointing. But the fact we have all of this young talent makes the lack of team cohesion and spirit completely unacceptable.
Quote:B4thB4ck
I mentioned elsewhere, how real is this supposed interference from Bruce? There are only rumours about Matson, what other evidence is there? It would need to be quite active and regular to be a big reason for P4 L4, or is it just a snow balling myth from a few years ago?
I think good ol' Sam Burgess's introduction was a good example (merits of the project aside), and I think that resulted in a fair bit of lasting fallout.
The next 'example' (I say example in inverted commas as I think absent a clear comment from the parties involved, we (the fans) will never know) was bringing in Blackadder and Matson with what was implied to be a free hand over recruitment etc, but then closing the coffers and limiting the actual recruitment they were able to do.
The story given at the time was Matson had family in NZ who were very unwell, and I think it was more a case of was it worth sticking around in England if he wasn't allowed to do his job with that as an additional stressor.
Blackadder then seemed hamstrung - unable to bring in a new Head Coach, or any new recruits, and it wasn't surprising that mutual termination seemed the most sensible option.
I still think with Matson and Blackadder together we had the makings of a very good setup.
I suspect as well the indications we were going to land a premier 10 come from BC's ambitions for the club, but that's been at the expense of those already here (eg Priestland - the way in which he was treated was outrageous, but he didn't let it affect his performances).
BC has every right to run the club how he sees fit - he owns it, after all. However, if he wants success (and, at this stage, success for this season looks every bit like reaching 6th!) there has to be some acknowledgement that whatever the plans are at present, they aren't working.
Quote:Optimist
Has anyone said the ref had anything to do with the scoreline, let alone the result? The shellacking doesn't mean people can't discuss the ref's performance.
I thought the ref was okay. Not the most sympathetic, but by no means down at the levels of Tempest or Dickson.
Sure, there were decisions that didn't necessarily go our way - the Muir "obstruction" one being a good example, but that's sport. Some people saying on one of the other threads he didn't sound that involved after listening via Reflink, but from the tellybox he seemed to pretty much do all that was asked of him, that Muir decision aside. Don't think the ref was to blame for the loss, unlike against Bristol!
If the club management needed to keep under the cap then recruitment had to suffer at that time.
Is that interference? I agree he should act now but just trying to nail down what he was supposed to have done wrong back then and is it relevant now?
I heard the rumours a few years ago about Matson but these just seem to persist endlessly with no evidence or foundation.
It seems some blame Bruce for interfering a while back but do want him to interfere now? Oh and by the way please buy us a new stadium, thanks....
Is that interference? I agree he should act now but just trying to nail down what he was supposed to have done wrong back then and is it relevant now?
I heard the rumours a few years ago about Matson but these just seem to persist endlessly with no evidence or foundation.
It seems some blame Bruce for interfering a while back but do want him to interfere now? Oh and by the way please buy us a new stadium, thanks....
Some people have short memories. The most glaring bit of interference came in the form of hiring a close mate, who was French and didn't speak much English and putting him in charge of player acquisitions and development.
This led to several loyal players being shown the door and the acquisition of a couple of players to replace them who were, let's be honest, complete turkeys. Including, most notably a French tight head who struggled in Pro D2. He apparently turned up for training one day without having been announced to the then head coach, who didn't know who he was, let alone that he was now required to coach him. There was also an Argentinian loose head who apparently got habitually turned inside out in training by academy players.
Both of these players were apparently handed three year contracts.
A former international once of this parish described this to me as the single worst piece of business he had ever encountered in the history of club rugby.
I have heard that others who have complained of interference included several senior coaches, a load of players and a well known and respected agent told me a couple of years ago that the club had basically become impossible to do business with.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:18:12:30:15 by malco.
This led to several loyal players being shown the door and the acquisition of a couple of players to replace them who were, let's be honest, complete turkeys. Including, most notably a French tight head who struggled in Pro D2. He apparently turned up for training one day without having been announced to the then head coach, who didn't know who he was, let alone that he was now required to coach him. There was also an Argentinian loose head who apparently got habitually turned inside out in training by academy players.
Both of these players were apparently handed three year contracts.
A former international once of this parish described this to me as the single worst piece of business he had ever encountered in the history of club rugby.
I have heard that others who have complained of interference included several senior coaches, a load of players and a well known and respected agent told me a couple of years ago that the club had basically become impossible to do business with.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:18:12:30:15 by malco.
Broncan certainly made some appalling signings up front.
Tbf though we have always had a decent playing squad despite the various issues and mistakes.
You would think Bruce would have a learning curve and if truth in all this realise that there is a correlation between level of involvement and complete lack of any success.
Whilst we are at our lowest ebb it doesn't feel impossible to give one good, strong dor free reign to appoint his own coaching team and let him get on with it. Clubs are quickly turned around if you have some decent players.
Tbf though we have always had a decent playing squad despite the various issues and mistakes.
You would think Bruce would have a learning curve and if truth in all this realise that there is a correlation between level of involvement and complete lack of any success.
Whilst we are at our lowest ebb it doesn't feel impossible to give one good, strong dor free reign to appoint his own coaching team and let him get on with it. Clubs are quickly turned around if you have some decent players.
Quote:B4thB4ck
If I was in charge I would just sit the players down and talk it through. There must be a 2 way conversation around what have the coaches got wrong? Were the players over coached, is there muddled thinking, what would the players want to see happen?
If you take that group of players and said nothing to them all week before the game would they have played better?
There are often comments about Bath looking like they just met before the game but I think mixed messages or over coaching can result in the same effect.
100% agree with this. A vital first step - sit the coaches, senior players (and probably emerging players too) down, probably individually and definitely off the record, to identify problem area(s) .
I think Ford Motors called it TOPS (Team Oriented Problem Solving).
There are talented professionals here, many of them, in other groups, will have knowledge of other, more successful coaching regimes. Getting their input would surely help team building too
Quote:malco
The sad fact is that no top name coach would consider coming to Bath without having guarantees that they would be able to work with complete freedom.
This is why Tabai Matson is head coach of Quins and not Bath.
What actually happened with Matson?
He was only with us for a brief time and then went home for 'personal reasons' if I recall correctly?
And then comes back with Quins where he is turning lead into gold (apparently).
Quote:iloveciderQuote:malco
The sad fact is that no top name coach would consider coming to Bath without having guarantees that they would be able to work with complete freedom.
This is why Tabai Matson is head coach of Quins and not Bath.
What actually happened with Matson?
He was only with us for a brief time and then went home for 'personal reasons' if I recall correctly?
And then comes back with Quins where he is turning lead into gold (apparently).
[www.stuff.co.nz]
Reasons here, from the man himself. Others obviously think that he is a liar and that presumably he made up an illness?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
For me the key problem in the match was the defence (really?). There was nothing stopping Sarries go forward. Too often our defensive line ran up with wider players looking in at the ball. The player they were supposed to be marking just moved slightly wider and when the ball came they were already outside their marker and moving into the gap. It reminded me of the way my U11/12 team used to defend, look at the ball and ignore the players who were the threat. I guess this is coming from a lack of trust of the man inside you. Is the lack of trust justified or is it coming from a lack of confidence? Whichever, it is a coaching issue and if we fix our defence we will dramatically improve.
Quote:BathMatt53
[www.stuff.co.nz]
Reasons here, from the man himself. Others obviously think that he is a liar and that presumably he made up an illness?
No, I don't think anyone is suggesting he made up a family illness. From what I recall at the time, there was talk of tensions in the camp so when this came along as well, it was effectively the final straw - though of course no-one would (or I think did) blame him for deciding to prioritise family over work.
Quote:Optimist
Has anyone said the ref had anything to do with the scoreline, let alone the result? The shellacking doesn't mean people can't discuss the ref's performance.
One poster described him as "clueless". Personally I thought the ref did Ok. A couple of possible forward passes maybe but they were marginal and overall he was more intent on keeping the game going as far as I could tell. He is fairly inexperienced, true, but there wasn't much he got wrong I didn't think and certainly nothing that would have affected the scoreline in any significant way. The two tackle-in the air issues it seemed to me he got spot on. For me it was Bath who were "clueless" not the ref
Quote:SJSQuote:BathMatt53
[www.stuff.co.nz]
Reasons here, from the man himself. Others obviously think that he is a liar and that presumably he made up an illness?
No, I don't think anyone is suggesting he made up a family illness. From what I recall at the time, there was talk of tensions in the camp so when this came along as well, it was effectively the final straw - though of course no-one would (or I think did) blame him for deciding to prioritise family over work.
SJS spot on I was told by a very reliable source within the club that he left because he felt his position was untenable - the family illness was his Mother in Law who was at home in NZ and was a definitely a part in his decision to leave his mate TB in the lurch but it was not the sole reason. I was told Bruce was not the issue it was our CEO. Tabai is a true gentleman who is not going to "Wash his laundry" in public. Like every post it is up to the individual to believe or make their own mind up as they wish - the issues concerning the interference came to a head well after Tabai left the club and that was from many sources not just on here but in the press & media what do they say "No smoke without Fire"- but maybe that was just coincidence.
The problem I have with Hoops is that there has been absolutely no improvement since he took over if anything there has been a serious decline - he had the cheek to actually refer to the Bristol game as if we had put in a stellar performance - 1. We LOST to the 2nd worst team in the Premiership who shipped 50 points the following week against Quins. 2. Our pack has been destroyed every single game this season despite having an all International front 5 present for at least the last 2 games. I have always thought that Hoops is a grounded good man - and that has not changed - what has IMHO is that he has become embattled to the point of being blinded by denial - and for that reason I cannot see how he is the man to lead us out of this ever deeper hole.
In relation to a DoR - Steve Diamond is a tough, decent bloke who does not mix his words - I am not sure he though is ready or needs the challenge we offer - personally I would be audacious and try and get Michael Chieka or Joe Schmidt.
All of this is of course is pie in the sky because I have a horrible feeling nothing will happen - Hoops clearly is not going to step down and I don't think Bruce or Tarquin will fire their prodigy.
Quote:gaz59Quote:Optimist
Has anyone said the ref had anything to do with the scoreline, let alone the result? The shellacking doesn't mean people can't discuss the ref's performance.
One poster described him as "clueless". Personally I thought the ref did Ok. A couple of possible forward passes maybe but they were marginal and overall he was more intent on keeping the game going as far as I could tell. He is fairly inexperienced, true, but there wasn't much he got wrong I didn't think and certainly nothing that would have affected the scoreline in any significant way. The two tackle-in the air issues it seemed to me he got spot on. For me it was Bath who were "clueless" not the ref
There will always be one poster you can single out who says the ref was rubbish or biased or clueless.most are saying ok I think in the premiership we need better than ok but at present that is all we can hope for given the very small pool of available talent.
As for the tackles in the air the second was just a penalty but so should the first have been he may have tried to pull out but he turned his back and didn’t stop. Reckless- there was absence of control he didn’t have eyes on the ball or the player. Colliding with someone else means he never had a chance to play the ball so no possible competition. Definite penalty with some strong argument for yellow card. Even if the ref decides against the card he should have reversed the Saracens penalty as it was dangerous play and that would cancel the advantage for crossing.
I know it's O/T but its not worth it's own thread and being a local story I thought it might raise a chuckle or two:
[www.theguardian.com]
[www.theguardian.com]
Quote:OldMarovian
I know it's O/T but its not worth it's own thread and being a local story I thought it might raise a chuckle or two:
[www.theguardian.com]
That is certainly funnier than any conversation about how clueless Bath are or how mediocre the ref was. Not very flattering for the lady though.
Highlight/ most telling moment of the match for me was at 45-7. Farrell went berserk at his players and the ref.
You may not be fond of him but that is character, leadership and club culture. He didn't like something he saw and wouldn't let it lie just cos they were already grinding us into the dirt.
The whole coaching set up and playing staff at bath seems to completely lack this desire and grit. I have always said they don't seem to demand enough of each other.
Tbf I admire someone like watson. Everything I read and see suggests he is ultra professional and extremely driven (all be it in a very different way to someone like faz). His rehab from 2 achilles tears and the lengths he went to to be back making a lions tour were impressive. Wish he didn't seem to be an exception. Most of our guys are going backwards....
You may not be fond of him but that is character, leadership and club culture. He didn't like something he saw and wouldn't let it lie just cos they were already grinding us into the dirt.
The whole coaching set up and playing staff at bath seems to completely lack this desire and grit. I have always said they don't seem to demand enough of each other.
Tbf I admire someone like watson. Everything I read and see suggests he is ultra professional and extremely driven (all be it in a very different way to someone like faz). His rehab from 2 achilles tears and the lengths he went to to be back making a lions tour were impressive. Wish he didn't seem to be an exception. Most of our guys are going backwards....
We certainly miss a bit of dog, no really horrible players at bath as far as I can tell? Ones that would be dragging the other players around the pitch through sheer will and striking terror (Jonno, Paul OC, even Danny G to a lesser extent?). I think that we could do with a bit of nastiness at the moment.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
What I don't understand is that all of the players and coaching staff, and staff must watch morst of the Premiership Matches.
Don't they look at Quins, London Irish, Saracens, Leicester and think "I'd like to play like that", "I know we can play like that" AND "I WANT to play like that".
So why don't they tell the coaches that is how we are going to play, there is no relegation this year nor next year so why don't we just give it a crack???????
Reminiscent of the sub-standard England Squad in the 2007 World Cup who, by report, took over how they were going to play the game.
Don't they look at Quins, London Irish, Saracens, Leicester and think "I'd like to play like that", "I know we can play like that" AND "I WANT to play like that".
So why don't they tell the coaches that is how we are going to play, there is no relegation this year nor next year so why don't we just give it a crack???????
Reminiscent of the sub-standard England Squad in the 2007 World Cup who, by report, took over how they were going to play the game.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
What I don't understand is that all of the players and coaching staff, and staff must watch morst of the Premiership Matches.
Don't they look at Quins, London Irish, Saracens, Leicester and think "I'd like to play like that", "I know we can play like that" AND "I WANT to play like that".
So why don't they tell the coaches that is how we are going to play, there is no relegation this year nor next year so why don't we just give it a crack???????
Reminiscent of the sub-standard England Squad in the 2007 World Cup who, by report, took over how they were going to play the game.
I think that its the execution BSJ and the quality of the players available to do it. This is why they think that the have 'trained well all week' until they come up against a team who are just better rugby players in many cases. Did we really expect our pack to get the better of Sarries this weekend? That being the case did we think that we would be creating magic off back foot ball? Its no coincidence that Quins do it behind a pretty tidy scrum and strong loose play from the forwards like Marler and Dombrandt .
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Pretty much all of Saturday's starting pack have been in or on the fringe of their national squads over the last year (I think Ellis was the exception but has also been there in the past). Clearly a number of international coaches consider them to be very good players. OK, only Sam U should have been a Lion, but the player quality wasn't the issue.
Something is very wrong with the coaching of the scrum at the moment.
Maul defence is nigh on impossible due to the current laws once it has been well set and starts to move forward.
Our lineout is decent - there will always be occassions when throws go wrong, but it's not a permanent weakness.
The overall defence is just dreadful. It looked like our backs were marking space, not players on Saturday making it so easy for Salaries just to pass around them.
Something is very wrong with the coaching of the scrum at the moment.
Maul defence is nigh on impossible due to the current laws once it has been well set and starts to move forward.
Our lineout is decent - there will always be occassions when throws go wrong, but it's not a permanent weakness.
The overall defence is just dreadful. It looked like our backs were marking space, not players on Saturday making it so easy for Salaries just to pass around them.
Quote:Dorset Boy
Pretty much all of Saturday's starting pack have been in or on the fringe of their national squads over the last year (I think Ellis was the exception but has also been there in the past). Clearly a number of international coaches consider them to be very good players. OK, only Sam U should have been a Lion, but the player quality wasn't the issue.
Being a good player or on the fringe of internation selection is still a marked step down from the sort of performance that Itoje, Farrell, George etc put in at the weekend.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Dorset Boy
Pretty much all of Saturday's starting pack have been in or on the fringe of their national squads over the last year (I think Ellis was the exception but has also been there in the past). Clearly a number of international coaches consider them to be very good players. OK, only Sam U should have been a Lion, but the player quality wasn't the issue.
Something is very wrong with the coaching of the scrum at the moment.
Maul defence is nigh on impossible due to the current laws once it has been well set and starts to move forward.
Our lineout is decent - there will always be occassions when throws go wrong, but it's not a permanent weakness.
The overall defence is just dreadful. It looked like our backs were marking space, not players on Saturday making it so easy for Salaries just to pass around them.
Social media accounts of various players showed them spending their week off relaxing in a wide variety of holiday destinations around Europe. I personally think that was a terrible decision and that they should all have been having light training throughout the week and team bonding sessions.
The rest week means that it is two weeks between games. If true and players had week away from training then that might explain a performance that was off the required pace in pretty much every aspect from the first whistle
Against an uber-professional, highly focused, full on motivated Saracens side with the likes of Farrell, Itoje and George returning then malco is spot on.
But still doesn't change the firm perception that it is going to be nigh on impossible for Hoops, Hatley or both to carry on. Craig needs to ask himself this question: What evidence is there that they can turn this mess around?
Sarries just showed us exactly how far away we are from potential silverware and we are going backwards as the likes of Quins, Tigers, Wasps and now Newcastle are clearly well above us. Add in Exeter, Saracens and Bristol and we are competing for 8th spot at best
Against an uber-professional, highly focused, full on motivated Saracens side with the likes of Farrell, Itoje and George returning then malco is spot on.
But still doesn't change the firm perception that it is going to be nigh on impossible for Hoops, Hatley or both to carry on. Craig needs to ask himself this question: What evidence is there that they can turn this mess around?
Sarries just showed us exactly how far away we are from potential silverware and we are going backwards as the likes of Quins, Tigers, Wasps and now Newcastle are clearly well above us. Add in Exeter, Saracens and Bristol and we are competing for 8th spot at best
Quote:malco
Social media accounts of various players showed them spending their week off relaxing in a wide variety of holiday destinations around Europe.
Will Stuart was in Vegas.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I’m no defender of the Hopper era but raking a dim view of human beings going on holiday is a bit extreme.
I am assuming the players spent the 1st week on holiday and the 2nd week training as normal which would seem a logical and acceptable thing to do.
Except they were P3 L3 at the time and about to play Saracens.....
Perhaps the incentive should have been if you want your holidays we need to have won >= 1 of the 1st 3 games or your holiday is cancelled....
Except they were P3 L3 at the time and about to play Saracens.....
Perhaps the incentive should have been if you want your holidays we need to have won >= 1 of the 1st 3 games or your holiday is cancelled....
Interesting article about what they have got up to in their bye weeks.
[www.rugbyworld.com]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[www.rugbyworld.com]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
Interesting article about what they have got up to in their bye weeks.
[www.rugbyworld.com]
Well Wasps got it right judging by the performance and result from the game following the bye and that just feels a far better, more sensible balance
I don't think you can standardise it. Wasps was just an extra week of pre-season. I think it's reasonable to ask if it was the best thing for the team given the situation, but when's the next week they're going to get off?
While it might not have been what I'd have done (same with Cips over Bailey) I can't see it as the reason we got so humiliated.
While it might not have been what I'd have done (same with Cips over Bailey) I can't see it as the reason we got so humiliated.
I have to agree, that it isn't a good look you are zero from three bottom of the table and next game up is Saracens, and the best prep is a week in the sun. That has to be a questionable decision, I'm not saying they should have been knocking seven bells out of each other. If nothing else I am not sure this creates the impression of commitment to the supporters.
There does have to be some fundamental changes, we have some great players and some very talented youngsters, but the performances aren't there and some of the big names aren't really firing. We look rudderless without Ben Spencer at 9, and you have to question the decision making about not having a more experienced back up in the squad. I have said we have looked light in terms of numbers in the centers for years and seems to be the case in the second row too, and neither of our two specialist 8s are in the squad (maybe injured don't know) and we let our best one go IMHO. I guess what I am trying to say is that player recruitment/retention also seems to an issue.
There does have to be some fundamental changes, we have some great players and some very talented youngsters, but the performances aren't there and some of the big names aren't really firing. We look rudderless without Ben Spencer at 9, and you have to question the decision making about not having a more experienced back up in the squad. I have said we have looked light in terms of numbers in the centers for years and seems to be the case in the second row too, and neither of our two specialist 8s are in the squad (maybe injured don't know) and we let our best one go IMHO. I guess what I am trying to say is that player recruitment/retention also seems to an issue.
Quote:Dickie_S
neither of our two specialist 8s are in the squad (maybe injured don't know) and we let our best one go IMHO.
Not sure we could have done anything (particularly under the lower cap) about that even if we had wanted to. Can't lock him up.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:malco
Social media accounts of various players showed them spending their week off relaxing in a wide variety of holiday destinations around Europe.
Will Stuart was in Vegas.
Trow Vegas perchance?
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
If we could have fielded a side with over 500 international caps as Saracens did on Sunday the result might have been different. Ten of our starting line up had 8 caps between them. The ten least capped Sarries had 184. A massive difference in experience.
Quote:Pop stand fan
If we could have fielded a side with over 500 international caps as Saracens did on Sunday the result might have been different. Ten of our starting line up had 8 caps between them. The ten least capped Sarries had 184. A massive difference in experience.
True- but that was our heaviest ever Premiership defeat. Saracens did not score tries at will against Bristol or Leicester.
PG
Quote:P G TipsQuote:Pop stand fan
If we could have fielded a side with over 500 international caps as Saracens did on Sunday the result might have been different. Ten of our starting line up had 8 caps between them. The ten least capped Sarries had 184. A massive difference in experience.
True- but that was our heaviest ever Premiership defeat. Saracens did not score tries at will against Bristol or Leicester.
PG
Agree PG, but did Sarries out out their strongest team for those games? Certainly Itoje wasn't playing and he's worth 2 players!! By the way I'm not saying we would have beaten Sarries with a weakened team.
Quote:CoochieCoo
The Club had a bad day not only on the field. My digital ticket wouldn’t work and the plastic card ticket didn’t work either. Had to stand by for a steward to wave me through!
No club wifi available and the 4G in the South Stand wasn’t up to the job. Lot of broken things to mend Tarquin!
I had the same issue. I rang the ticket office today and they advised downloading an eticket disables the plastic card ticket. Lack of any WiFi meant I couldn't then access the eticket until a steward finally took pity and waved me through
Adopted player
2023/24 Tom de Glanville
2021/22 Danny Cipriani
2020/21: Jonathan Joseph
2019/20: Tom Ellis
I can’t seem to find the attendance for Sunday, could someone enlighten please?
Quote:Pulteney
I can’t seem to find the attendance for Sunday, could someone enlighten please?
14,509 listed as the attendance on premiership rugby site.
When you're losing games everything seems wrong, every critic comes out of the cupboard, and everyone starts snapping at each other. A change of voice is needed very, very urgently.
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Dickie_S
neither of our two specialist 8s are in the squad (maybe injured don't know) and we let our best one go IMHO.
Not sure we could have done anything (particularly under the lower cap) about that even if we had wanted to. Can't lock him up.
I would have happily kept him locked up if needed
Adopted player
2023/24 Tom de Glanville
2021/22 Danny Cipriani
2020/21: Jonathan Joseph
2019/20: Tom Ellis
Quote:MontyukQuote:CoochieCoo
The Club had a bad day not only on the field. My digital ticket wouldn’t work and the plastic card ticket didn’t work either. Had to stand by for a steward to wave me through!
No club wifi available and the 4G in the South Stand wasn’t up to the job. Lot of broken things to mend Tarquin!
I had the same issue. I rang the ticket office today and they advised downloading an eticket disables the plastic card ticket. Lack of any WiFi meant I couldn't then access the eticket until a steward finally took pity and waved me through
I was able to get my digital ticket on screen but the scan didn’t work. I didn’t realise that the plastic card is disabled and nor did the steward who tried to scan the card with the same problem. Went through to see the steward who recognised me!
Quote:hasta
I don't think you can standardise it. Wasps was just an extra week of pre-season. I think it's reasonable to ask if it was the best thing for the team given the situation, but when's the next week they're going to get off?
While it might not have been what I'd have done (same with Cips over Bailey) I can't see it as the reason we got so humiliated.
Not saying it was the reason just questioning whether it helped put players in the right place mentally and physically for what was always going to be a very tough, brutal game
Q1: Were we as sharp, focused and as physical in the contact that we needed to be right from the first whistle?
A: Evidently not
Q2: Would giving players a weeks holiday before the match have helped or hindered being as sharp, focused and as physical in the contact that we needed to be ....?
Re the game there is one thing that I wonder and that's whether Bath had bought into the idea that Saracens would come play as they had in the previous games of the season.
I have no idea if Baths coaching tends to be more reactive or proactive in terms of their game plan but I can imagine having Cipriani fit to play, as strong a squad as you've had available for a while and the idea that Saracens will feed you lots of possession then starting a game in which Saracens still kicked but also held onto the ball and attacked width was possibly a bit of a surprise? Tbf it was to me.
It's always great to hear of new supporters joining the live rugby community! At least she chose a beautiful day for her first game and that's awesome to hear how nice Underhill was after what must have been a tough game.
I have no idea if Baths coaching tends to be more reactive or proactive in terms of their game plan but I can imagine having Cipriani fit to play, as strong a squad as you've had available for a while and the idea that Saracens will feed you lots of possession then starting a game in which Saracens still kicked but also held onto the ball and attacked width was possibly a bit of a surprise? Tbf it was to me.
Quote:BathSalmon
I was there today with my daughter for her 1st live games. She enjoyed both games and met Sam Underhill afterwards - who approached us to talk after seeing us looking over. Fair play to him, it can't be easy being social with supporters after such a loss.
It's always great to hear of new supporters joining the live rugby community! At least she chose a beautiful day for her first game and that's awesome to hear how nice Underhill was after what must have been a tough game.
Quote:P G TipsQuote:Pop stand fan
If we could have fielded a side with over 500 international caps as Saracens did on Sunday the result might have been different. Ten of our starting line up had 8 caps between them. The ten least capped Sarries had 184. A massive difference in experience.
True- but that was our heaviest ever Premiership defeat. Saracens did not score tries at will against Bristol or Leicester.
PG
And unfortunately for Stuart Hooper that defeat will be on his CV !
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Quote:CoochieCooQuote:MontyukQuote:CoochieCoo
The Club had a bad day not only on the field. My digital ticket wouldn’t work and the plastic card ticket didn’t work either. Had to stand by for a steward to wave me through!
No club wifi available and the 4G in the South Stand wasn’t up to the job. Lot of broken things to mend Tarquin!
I had the same issue. I rang the ticket office today and they advised downloading an eticket disables the plastic card ticket. Lack of any WiFi meant I couldn't then access the eticket until a steward finally took pity and waved me through
I was able to get my digital ticket on screen but the scan didn’t work. I didn’t realise that the plastic card is disabled and nor did the steward who tried to scan the card with the same problem. Went through to see the steward who recognised me!
I’ve downloaded mine but was having trouble scanning it on my phone tried the old style plastic scanned fine so who knows what’s going on.
Quote:TG KesmoQuote:CoochieCooQuote:MontyukQuote:CoochieCoo
The Club had a bad day not only on the field. My digital ticket wouldn’t work and the plastic card ticket didn’t work either. Had to stand by for a steward to wave me through!
No club wifi available and the 4G in the South Stand wasn’t up to the job. Lot of broken things to mend Tarquin!
I had the same issue. I rang the ticket office today and they advised downloading an eticket disables the plastic card ticket. Lack of any WiFi meant I couldn't then access the eticket until a steward finally took pity and waved me through
I was able to get my digital ticket on screen but the scan didn’t work. I didn’t realise that the plastic card is disabled and nor did the steward who tried to scan the card with the same problem. Went through to see the steward who recognised me!
I’ve downloaded mine but was having trouble scanning it on my phone tried the old style plastic scanned fine so who knows what’s going on.
Standard Bath then, nothing works the way is should on paper 🤣
Adopted player
2023/24 Tom de Glanville
2021/22 Danny Cipriani
2020/21: Jonathan Joseph
2019/20: Tom Ellis
In respect of the comment by BathMatt at about 10.00 above I deliberately chose London Irish as a team of comparison with Bath.
They score lots of tries and give it a go...............have they got a better squad than us.
What about Newcastle is their squad way better than us..........I really don't think so.
However Newcastle beat us pretty easily and I suspect if we played LI they would as well.
Both teams I suspect are well under the salary cap.
They score lots of tries and give it a go...............have they got a better squad than us.
What about Newcastle is their squad way better than us..........I really don't think so.
However Newcastle beat us pretty easily and I suspect if we played LI they would as well.
Both teams I suspect are well under the salary cap.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
In respect of the comment by BathMatt at about 10.00 above I deliberately chose London Irish as a team of comparison with Bath.
They score lots of tries and give it a go...............have they got a better squad than us.
What about Newcastle is their squad way better than us..........I really don't think so.
However Newcastle beat us pretty easily and I suspect if we played LI they would as well.
Both teams I suspect are well under the salary cap.
Sorry BSJ I assumed that the LI had squeezed themselves into that list of the top 3 contenders by accident! Newcastle have the dog in the team as well as the glitter. Irish are no better than Bath (although of the course the table tells a different story) - if they were playing each other tomorrow I suspect that the bookies would have them about even. The difference between Bath and those others is that the have the vision, the muscle and the ability to execute.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
That's a decent video, the latest 'Unseen'. Trouble is I've never doubted the honesty, intellectual reflection and the commitment of the players to themselves, their teammates and the club.
Bruce has invested a lot of top quality support for these guys in the training facilities, the medical/fitness/psychological stuff and also overall wellbeing with plans for 'state of the art' playing stadium but is the rugby coaching staff at the same level in both quality and capacity across all areas of the game?
That's the first question I'm not seeing being addressed. It maybe and I hope so but there is no evidence as yet
The second question arises from the one 'big' thing I took from that video which has come up in other interviews. It wasn't the game-plan but the execution that was the problem. OK, so what has changed from a coaching perspective to address that? The Quins defence might not be as intense as Saracens but it will be very good so specifically, what will we see on Saturday that is going to be different from us?
Bruce has invested a lot of top quality support for these guys in the training facilities, the medical/fitness/psychological stuff and also overall wellbeing with plans for 'state of the art' playing stadium but is the rugby coaching staff at the same level in both quality and capacity across all areas of the game?
That's the first question I'm not seeing being addressed. It maybe and I hope so but there is no evidence as yet
The second question arises from the one 'big' thing I took from that video which has come up in other interviews. It wasn't the game-plan but the execution that was the problem. OK, so what has changed from a coaching perspective to address that? The Quins defence might not be as intense as Saracens but it will be very good so specifically, what will we see on Saturday that is going to be different from us?
BM
" I suspect that the bookies would have them about even. The difference between Bath and those others is that the have the vision, the muscle and the ability to execute."[i][/i]
I mean that is the whole point isn't it.
It is wonderful to haver 9 visits to the Saracens 22 but absolutely no point if you don't score on at least every other visit.
What is the point of trying to bulldoze one of the best defensive packs in the league.
We need to try something different ever x phase.
I think Bath could have still been there trying to pick and go now and still would not have scored.
" I suspect that the bookies would have them about even. The difference between Bath and those others is that the have the vision, the muscle and the ability to execute."[i][/i]
I mean that is the whole point isn't it.
It is wonderful to haver 9 visits to the Saracens 22 but absolutely no point if you don't score on at least every other visit.
What is the point of trying to bulldoze one of the best defensive packs in the league.
We need to try something different ever x phase.
I think Bath could have still been there trying to pick and go now and still would not have scored.
Gaz +1
I sort of said the same thing above without reading your post
I sort of said the same thing above without reading your post
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