Bath
Its in our hands! Saracens v Bath Match Preview
Inside Man - Ben Spencer
By Mr Frivolous
September 29 2020
Time to be honest and ask yourself this question; at the resumption of the season did you expect Bath to be in the hunt for the top four with the last game to go?
Well, here we are with our fate in our own hands, get a five pointer at Saracens then we are in the plays offs Anything less it all gets complicated – quite frankly my head hurts. A Bath win would mean a three-way tie with Bristol and Sale but would go through on the number of wins maybe…or perhaps a losing bonus point at Saracens and Exeter keeping Wasp pointless would be enough? Possibly, perhaps, maybe?
Why the worry when we are playing the relegated team? The old adage of the bottom placed team being the strongest in the league as they are propping everyone up everyone else never looks more ironically true. Saracens only relegated due to the penalty for financial irregularities continue to win fixtures with a talented and international squad despite the departures. Its unlikely this will be an end of an era farewell party but an opportunity for Saracens to send one last defiant salute.
A visit to Allianz park has always been a daunting prospect for Bath facing Saracens in their pomp and trying to negotiate the artificial surface and invariably end up well beaten. The Blue, Black and White faithful should be optimistic with the not so secret weapon in star signing and Saracens old boy Ben Spencer in their ranks will certainly be looking to put one over his old mates and use the opportunity to press his England credentials. Handy to have a scrum half that will know every blade of artificial grass and chink in Saracens armour, who knows he might even know their line out calls!
For the first time in a long while Bath should be confident of matching Saracens in the set piece, the tight forwards and maybe edging it in the back row. If Hoops ‘ n’ Hats pick Taulupe Faletau it sets up a family reunion with Billy Vunipola at No.8 that will be worth watching. Saracens are also without influential naughty boy Owen Farrell and potentially Duncan Taylor and Brad Barritt due to injuries. Bath will be Saracens third game in eight days so fatigue and an inexperienced bench could be the deciding factor.
Maybe just maybe the boys in Blue, White and Black can pull this off.
On a personal note I watched an injury ravaged Bath well beaten by a full-strength Saracens a few days after the initial penalty of 35 points back in November 2019. I was outraged by the injustice of it at the time inflamed by some smug smiles on certain Saracens players faces thinking they had gotten away with a minor set- back. So, to satisfy this old grump’s vindictiveness smash ‘em into seven shades of Sunday Bath!
PS Our hero PG "Indiana Jones" Tips was last seen walking across Northern Spain in aid of charity. Fancy making a donation or just checking on his progress then visit the sticky
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Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 29/09/2020 20:14
29/09/2020 20:14
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Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:07:13:19:30 by CoochieCoo.
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Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:07:13:19:30 by CoochieCoo.
Chris Ashton was laughing at the end of this weeks RUW Podcast, saying that Bath had 'no chance' because Sarries are so up for their last hurrah. I am very much hoping that Bath can prove him wrong but one thing is for sure, with the Championship season still a while off Sarries won't be leaving anything out there on the pitch...Bath need to match that intensity or there will be no play offs. The issue will be that if they do match it, can they do the same twice more afterwards?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
Chris Ashton was laughing at the end of this weeks RUW Podcast, saying that Bath had 'no chance' because Sarries are so up for their last hurrah. I am very much hoping that Bath can prove him wrong but one thing is for sure, with the Championship season still a while off Sarries won't be leaving anything out there on the pitch...Bath need to match that intensity or there will be no play offs. The issue will be that if they do match it, can they do the same twice more afterwards?
Don't know but we do seem to have a good large uninjured (on the whole as far as we know) squad who have been well rotated and we have had a kind fixture diary as of late so we can't have any real excuses apart from being by the better team if we fall. At least we will know where we are in relation to the big boys. let's hope the journey continues and brings some smiles to our troubled lives and some thistles for BO
I think our biggest chance is that Sarries will want to go out with a flourish which means they will need to depart from the game plan that has served them so well. Add to that the loss of Barritt, Faz and Taylor (plus all the others) means that if we play intelligently (which means playing like Sarries usually do) we can win. Not 5 pts, I think, but deffo a chance of 4. But it means no unforced errors and that may be the biggest problem.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Well I was about to write that I utterly agree with Mr Frivolous's penultimate paragraph.
Then I read the Chris Ashton comment and I would be doubly delighted if we could go there and get the result.
Also I have a brother in law who supports them and whilst we have not discussed their recent problems (my wife has banned me from doing it!) I feel that he thinks that they have been really badly treated and that it wasn't really cheating
Then I read the Chris Ashton comment and I would be doubly delighted if we could go there and get the result.
Also I have a brother in law who supports them and whilst we have not discussed their recent problems (my wife has banned me from doing it!) I feel that he thinks that they have been really badly treated and that it wasn't really cheating
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Well I was about to write that I utterly agree with Mr Frivolous's penultimate paragraph.
Then I read the Chris Ashton comment and I would be doubly delighted if we could go there and get the result.
Also I have a brother in law who supports them and whilst we have not discussed their recent problems (my wife has banned me from doing it!) I feel that he thinks that they have been really badly treated and that it wasn't really cheating
Is your brother in law Stephen Jones?
Undoubtedly, we've been unlucky with the timings of our 2 Saracens games. We played them last year when they thought the world was against them and they were very much out to prove a point (then they admitted their guilt). And now we've got them when they want to prove a point again. Other teams played them in a) much more forgiving moods and b) with much more forgiving XVs.
But hey ho, it's swings and roundabouts, as we've been lucky enough to play a few teams over the last month or two who have been very far from full strength.
I'm of the opinion that whatever will be will be. If we go there and win and qualify for the playoffs, then fantastic and we 100% deserve it. If we lose to a fired up Saracens (who all things being equal would be challenging Exe for the top spot) then hey ho we know where we are. Even if we finish 5th, with the improvements we've seen over the last couple of months I'd be very pleased with where we're headed as a club and hope that next season top 4 would be a minimum requirement.
But hey ho, it's swings and roundabouts, as we've been lucky enough to play a few teams over the last month or two who have been very far from full strength.
I'm of the opinion that whatever will be will be. If we go there and win and qualify for the playoffs, then fantastic and we 100% deserve it. If we lose to a fired up Saracens (who all things being equal would be challenging Exe for the top spot) then hey ho we know where we are. Even if we finish 5th, with the improvements we've seen over the last couple of months I'd be very pleased with where we're headed as a club and hope that next season top 4 would be a minimum requirement.
I wonder if the twist is going to come elsewhere - something weird, like Leicester beating Bristol this evening or some such.
Leicester Tigers (v Bristol Bears, away, Wednesday 5.30pm)
15 Freddie Steward (vc)
14 Harry Potter
13 Dan Kelly
12 George Worth
11 Harry Simmons
10 Zack Henry
9 Ben White (vc)
1 Facundo Gigena
2 Jake Kerr
3 Joe Heyes
4 Cameron Henderson
5 Blake Enever
6 Ollie Chessum
7 Luke Wallace (vc)
8 Thom Smith (c)
REPLACEMENTS
16 Shalva Mamukashvili
17 Ryan Bower
18 Nephi Leatigaga
19 Sam Lewis
20 Jordan Coghlan
21 Jack Van Poortvliet
22 Johnny McPhillips
23 David Williams
Bristol Bears: 15 Ioan Lloyd, 14 Niyi Adeolokun, 13 Piers OConor, 12 Sam Bedlow, 11 Alapati Leiua, 10 Callum Sheedy, 9 Andy Uren; 1 Yann Thomas, 2 Bryan Byrne, 3 Kyle Sinckler, 4 Dave Attwood, 5 Joe Joyce, 6 Steven Luatua (c), 7 Dan Thomas, 8 Nathan Hughes.
Replacements: 16 Harry Thacker, 17 Max Lahiff, 18 Jake Woolmore, 19 Ed Holmes, 20 Jake Heenan, 21 Harry Randall, 22 Harry Ascherl, 23 Semi Radradra
15 Freddie Steward (vc)
14 Harry Potter
13 Dan Kelly
12 George Worth
11 Harry Simmons
10 Zack Henry
9 Ben White (vc)
1 Facundo Gigena
2 Jake Kerr
3 Joe Heyes
4 Cameron Henderson
5 Blake Enever
6 Ollie Chessum
7 Luke Wallace (vc)
8 Thom Smith (c)
REPLACEMENTS
16 Shalva Mamukashvili
17 Ryan Bower
18 Nephi Leatigaga
19 Sam Lewis
20 Jordan Coghlan
21 Jack Van Poortvliet
22 Johnny McPhillips
23 David Williams
Bristol Bears: 15 Ioan Lloyd, 14 Niyi Adeolokun, 13 Piers OConor, 12 Sam Bedlow, 11 Alapati Leiua, 10 Callum Sheedy, 9 Andy Uren; 1 Yann Thomas, 2 Bryan Byrne, 3 Kyle Sinckler, 4 Dave Attwood, 5 Joe Joyce, 6 Steven Luatua (c), 7 Dan Thomas, 8 Nathan Hughes.
Replacements: 16 Harry Thacker, 17 Max Lahiff, 18 Jake Woolmore, 19 Ed Holmes, 20 Jake Heenan, 21 Harry Randall, 22 Harry Ascherl, 23 Semi Radradra
What is the record highest Premiership score then? Could be exceeded tonight!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Sunday may well be a game too far against a fully loaded Sarries. Just hope we give it a go and have no regrets.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Bedford Blues (0) 12 - 106 (42) Richmond (FT)
ALLIED DUNBAR PREMIERSHIP - Bedford, 16 May 1999
[stats.espnscrum.com]
Of recent (ish) times its Leicester Tigers (34) 83 - 10 (10) Newcastle Falcons (FT)
ZURICH PREMIERSHIP - Leicester, 19 February 2005
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
ALLIED DUNBAR PREMIERSHIP - Bedford, 16 May 1999
[stats.espnscrum.com]
Of recent (ish) times its Leicester Tigers (34) 83 - 10 (10) Newcastle Falcons (FT)
ZURICH PREMIERSHIP - Leicester, 19 February 2005
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
Bedford Blues (0) 12 - 106 (42) Richmond (FT)
ALLIED DUNBAR PREMIERSHIP - Bedford, 16 May 1999
[stats.espnscrum.com]
Of recent (ish) times its Leicester Tigers (34) 83 - 10 (10) Newcastle Falcons (FT)
ZURICH PREMIERSHIP - Leicester, 19 February 2005
So 83 to beat, that's more than a point a minute! Seriously though what does that achieve? Is it experience for fringeblayers or how to demoralise a club and its supporters?
it will be won or lost in the mind. our team is easily strong enough to go head to head with theirs.
In the past we have gone to Alliance Park giving the impression we are just trying not to lose by too many and got blown out of the water in the first quarter. This will be different, the coaches are basking in the glow of recent results, the players seem happy and relaxed and they know they can match Saracens up front. As long as they cut out mistakes and keep it tight they might frustrate Saracens who will want to go out with a flourish. A lot will depend on how much latitude the referee allows with offside and at the breakdown, but in some ways I am happier having to win it the hard way than getting a free pass and at least it is in our own hands.
I hope the boys feel they have nothing to fear.
Sarries at full strength earlier in the season and now, minus singleton, isiekwe, skelton, earl, spencer, faz, malins, loz, williams etc, are two different propositons.
Appreciate they put leinster away and nearly pipped racing so undoubtedly still a class outfit but may have futher losses in barritt and taylor at least.
If they can be 'more up for it' due to chip on their shoulder/last dance emotion and we cant match that then we dont really deserve to make the play offs.
My major concern is that if mako/george/koch play then our usual scrummage foothold in the game is far from assured. In fact koch will probably fancy trying to make a mess of us.
I think 4 pts would guarantee us 3rd based on number of wins? May be totally wrong!
Sarries at full strength earlier in the season and now, minus singleton, isiekwe, skelton, earl, spencer, faz, malins, loz, williams etc, are two different propositons.
Appreciate they put leinster away and nearly pipped racing so undoubtedly still a class outfit but may have futher losses in barritt and taylor at least.
If they can be 'more up for it' due to chip on their shoulder/last dance emotion and we cant match that then we dont really deserve to make the play offs.
My major concern is that if mako/george/koch play then our usual scrummage foothold in the game is far from assured. In fact koch will probably fancy trying to make a mess of us.
I think 4 pts would guarantee us 3rd based on number of wins? May be totally wrong!
What squad are people going for? Think i would go:
Beno
Dunn
Stuart
Mcnally
Ewels
Ellis
Underhill
Faletau
Spencer
Rhys
Coko
Redpath
JJ
Rmc
Watson
Bench: boyce walker judge stooke reid bayliss chudley matavesi
No idea if coko will be risked on the plastic. I would be tempted by 6/2 bench split as per sale match. High risk but sarries are always primarily about the physicality.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:09:30:12:52:23 by charlieboa.
Beno
Dunn
Stuart
Mcnally
Ewels
Ellis
Underhill
Faletau
Spencer
Rhys
Coko
Redpath
JJ
Rmc
Watson
Bench: boyce walker judge stooke reid bayliss chudley matavesi
No idea if coko will be risked on the plastic. I would be tempted by 6/2 bench split as per sale match. High risk but sarries are always primarily about the physicality.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:09:30:12:52:23 by charlieboa.
Only 7 in the pack CBoA? You must be feeling confident! I would probably throw Underhill in just to be safe 
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:09:30:12:58:34 by BathMatt53.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:09:30:12:58:34 by BathMatt53.
Underhill may add a little. Possibly overconfident and disrespectful to take them on with a 7 man pack for the full 80!
Quote:charlieboa
Underhill may add a little. Possibly overconfident and disrespectful to take them on with a 7 man pack for the full 80!
Don't worry the ref will sort that out for you!
Our recent approach seems to have been to contain the opposition in the first half and hit the gas in the 2nd. Might need to work harder early on in this game, we don't want to be chasing a big points gap against Sarries.
Quote:Optimist
I wonder if the twist is going to come elsewhere - something weird, like Leicester beating Bristol this evening
Blimey Opti, you really are living up to your nomenclature with a hefty dose of happy drink
Quote:gaz59Quote:Optimist
I wonder if the twist is going to come elsewhere - something weird, like Leicester beating Bristol this evening
Blimey Opti, you really are living up to your nomenclature with a hefty dose of happy drink
Bookies not giving Tigers a chance tonight, mind you nor is anyone else on 'ere - Oddschecker
Plan to watch the first half then head for the pub...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
In my view if we can keep Goode under control we stand a chance...............give him an inch for his spiderlike running style and he will collecting 7 points after 7 points
Quote:Clarkey3kQuote:gaz59Quote:Optimist
I wonder if the twist is going to come elsewhere - something weird, like Leicester beating Bristol this evening
Blimey Opti, you really are living up to your nomenclature with a hefty dose of happy drink
Bookies not giving Tigers a chance tonight, mind you nor is anyone else on 'ere - Oddschecker
Plan to watch the first half then head for the pub...
Bristol 3+ Tries In Each Half @ 7/2 seems like a reasonable shout.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Optimist
I wonder if the twist is going to come elsewhere - something weird, like Leicester beating Bristol this evening or some such.
I think Ive given myself some wiggle room here ... if it were to happen I can claim a genius prediction, and if not Ill point to the generality of elsewhere, something weird, like ..., or some such.
Ok Opti, but define "elsewhere" my friend cos "some such" like Wuss winning at Sale or even Irish beating a full on Briz side sure would be weird
That wiggle [sic] room sure is tight!
That wiggle [sic] room sure is tight!
Can I claim LI beating Exe and Wuss beating Sarries? Not really a twist in the title race, but close to weird.
One result went our way tonight. Warriors 5 pointer means they travel to Sale knowing a similar result might - longshot but might - give them Champions Cup rugby next season.
I know it aint gonna happen, you know it too, but at least they have something to play for.
I know it aint gonna happen, you know it too, but at least they have something to play for.
So if we win on Sunday then we can finish no worse than 3rd. Is that right? Id take away to Wasps for a semi final.
Just got to beat the reigning English and European champions away from home now.
Just got to beat the reigning English and European champions away from home now.
Quote:Optimist
Can I claim LI beating Exe and Wuss beating Sarries? Not really a twist in the title race, but close to weird.
Hmm, take a look at the starting teams then the definition of weird
very strange and unusual, unexpected, or not natural
And if you think it is a close match then give Cummings a ring for a job in his team
Quote:gaz59Quote:Optimist
Can I claim LI beating Exe and Wuss beating Sarries? Not really a twist in the title race, but close to weird.
Hmm, take a look at the starting teams then the definition of weird
very strange and unusual, unexpected, or not natural
And if you think it is a close match then give Cummings a ring for a job in his team
Yeah - Bris/Tigers wasnt very close was it. Thats why they call me Optimystic Meg!
I propose going old-fashioned, as in scrumtime right uppercut into Sarries front row, from our second row, will have to be Ewels though because according to someone on Ere ref will never award a penalty as he won believe it has happened. Also I have not suggested a bad thing because clearly trying to take someones head off in an important match is just part of the game, except he didnt try to of course so it didnt happen. All clear at the back? COYB.
HOP
HOP
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Clarkey3kQuote:gaz59Quote:Optimist
I wonder if the twist is going to come elsewhere - something weird, like Leicester beating Bristol this evening
Blimey Opti, you really are living up to your nomenclature with a hefty dose of happy drink
Bookies not giving Tigers a chance tonight, mind you nor is anyone else on 'ere - Oddschecker
Plan to watch the first half then head for the pub...
Bristol 3+ Tries In Each Half @ 7/2 seems like a reasonable shout.
Happy days...
81'+1 40-3 Penalty try
62' 33-3 Try - Harry Thacker , Bristol Rugby
45' 26-3 Try - Daniel Thomas , Bristol Rugby
36' 19-3 Try - Bryan Byrne , Bristol Rugby
29' 12-3 Try - Nathan Hughes , Bristol Rugby
18' 5-0 Try - Ioan Lloyd , Bristol Rugby
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
How much did you win then BM53?
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Quote:Clarkey3k
How much did you win then BM53?
Nice round number - 0p (I didn't get around to putting it on...typical).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
So if we beat Saracens, ignoring all other results, we are in third place.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
So if we beat Saracens, ignoring all other results, we are in third place.
If we win and Wasps lose at home to Chiefs I think we'll finish 2nd given our extra win...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:01:09:01:36 by Clarkey3k.
Whatever happens, the idea of us even getting a losing bonus point after our last 3 league trips to Sarries, and the weakened sides we have put out, will be momentous in our improved thinking and development. A LBP would be good in view of those previous results, a win by one point would be a huge achievement, especially as Sarries will be fielding their best available 23 to go out in a blaze of glory. My heart hopes for a win but in reality I don't think we are quite there yet. Still a much improved season over recent years, and something to build and improve upon.
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
To me it is simple - concentrate on winning and our own performance and let all the other issues take care of themselves - it is another game against a professional side.
Without opening old wounds - It is ironic that it comes down to this game! I know that many of my fellow sport loving colleagues in my profession believe Saracens should have been immediately relegated and barred from all competitions until next season.
I am sure that Neal, Charlie and the boys will be pumped for this one - especially Ben Spencer - We now know it will be Saracens 1st XV and they will be expecting to hurt us - I personally think we are stronger now than we have been for 10 years or more - that come back against Glos shows the belief the squad has now - playing so badly for 60 minutes and turning it on for 20 minutes is a real sign for me, saying that we cannot afford to give Saracens an inch on Sunday.
On another note I am sure Saracens will be cradling some injuries from that Racing game - we know "Swinging Arm" Farrell won't be playing possibly Barrett which is key but Duncan Taylor is main one for me - hugely underrated player IMHO.
The final major part of the game is the official - HUGE - if it is someone like Foley, Dickson or Tempest we are in serious trouble. This is a sign of how much my opinion has changed over the last 12 months - I hope it is Matthew Carley (never thought I would be saying that) but I personally believe he is the best official in the Premiership at this time.
Without opening old wounds - It is ironic that it comes down to this game! I know that many of my fellow sport loving colleagues in my profession believe Saracens should have been immediately relegated and barred from all competitions until next season.
I am sure that Neal, Charlie and the boys will be pumped for this one - especially Ben Spencer - We now know it will be Saracens 1st XV and they will be expecting to hurt us - I personally think we are stronger now than we have been for 10 years or more - that come back against Glos shows the belief the squad has now - playing so badly for 60 minutes and turning it on for 20 minutes is a real sign for me, saying that we cannot afford to give Saracens an inch on Sunday.
On another note I am sure Saracens will be cradling some injuries from that Racing game - we know "Swinging Arm" Farrell won't be playing possibly Barrett which is key but Duncan Taylor is main one for me - hugely underrated player IMHO.
The final major part of the game is the official - HUGE - if it is someone like Foley, Dickson or Tempest we are in serious trouble. This is a sign of how much my opinion has changed over the last 12 months - I hope it is Matthew Carley (never thought I would be saying that) but I personally believe he is the best official in the Premiership at this time.
Agree with this Ali, personally we should ignore their team and its individuals and let them worry about how they are going to counter our pack and 9.
Pick a back 3 that can field their box kicks and throw it back at them with interest. This is our final then its knock out, anything can happen in those games!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Pick a back 3 that can field their box kicks and throw it back at them with interest. This is our final then its knock out, anything can happen in those games!
Its exciting isn't it!!!!!
Rather nice because I am going to Portugal on holiday and seeing my son and his wife so we can watch the game together..................like a sort of mini- Euro tour!
Given we've been to Stade Francais, Toulon, Toulouse, Leinster and Clermont and never seen Bath win
it would be lovely to put one over Sarries a team my son really likes and admires
Rather nice because I am going to Portugal on holiday and seeing my son and his wife so we can watch the game together..................like a sort of mini- Euro tour!
Given we've been to Stade Francais, Toulon, Toulouse, Leinster and Clermont and never seen Bath win
it would be lovely to put one over Sarries a team my son really likes and admires Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Its exciting isn't it!!!!!
Rather nice because I am going to Portugal on holiday and seeing my son and his wife so we can watch the game together..................like a sort of mini- Euro tour!
Given we've been to Stade Francais, Toulon, Toulouse, Leinster and Clermont and never seen Bath win
Providing you can get coverage in Portugal BSJ!
Quote:hasta
BT Sport worked for me in Greece!
Yes, my normal subscription and match pass both worked in Portugal very recently.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Racing 92 reporting "several players" have tested positive for Covid. No indication who or whether they played last Saturday but presumably this will be a concern for those Saracens players who were involved. I am not sure what "Track and Trace" protocols are in place for cross-border rugby matches...
I presume they will be routinely tested - is it weekly?
I saw Rob Baxter was saying it should stop but cant see that happening any time soon.
I saw Rob Baxter was saying it should stop but cant see that happening any time soon.
Quote:woodpecker
I presume they will be routinely tested - is it weekly?
I saw Rob Baxter was saying it should stop but cant see that happening any time soon.
What should stop? Testing?
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:woodpecker
I presume they will be routinely tested - is it weekly?
I saw Rob Baxter was saying it should stop but cant see that happening any time soon.
What should stop? Testing?
Exeters Rob Baxter believes it is time to stop testing professional rugby players for Covid-19 amid growing evidence that few positive cases of the virus are being transferred to their fit, healthy teammates. Baxter has warned his squad to remain vigilant away from the club but says he hopes routine weekly testing will soon be phased out.
[www.theguardian.com]
I like Baxter, but this seems bizarre!
You have to ask, should Saracens play Bath if several of their opponents in the previous game tested positive?
A spread of coronavirus through matches involving infected players would be disastrous for Rugby Union in the UK.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
A spread of coronavirus through matches involving infected players would be disastrous for Rugby Union in the UK.
Arent we on equal points to Sarries but with one more win and fewer bonus points? Yes their squad has been split up prior to restart, but we lost 15 players and bought in like 3. Yes they put out kids for some games, but weve rotated pre and post restart as well. So, other then them being fired up for their last hurrah before their punishment, and the Allianz pitch factor, we should be able to compete.
Bath Rugby should be on the phone to Sarries insisting only players with a clear test are playing with those players from the Racing game 'distance'.
Imagine if we beat Sarries then players from our team test positive and we had to forfeit the Semi-final. Yikes...... Sarries parting gift to the Prem!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Imagine if we beat Sarries then players from our team test positive and we had to forfeit the Semi-final. Yikes...... Sarries parting gift to the Prem!
I thought it was always the case that only players with a clear test get picked
Quote:9215
I thought it was always the case that only players with a clear test get picked
It would be sensible wouldn't it, but it depends a bit when they are tested. You need time for the results of course. Any idea if its weekly or between games. Some games have been 2 in a week. I can't find the guide that talks of testing.
If its forwards who are positive then spread would be quite likely.
I thought all players and staff were tested multiple times in a week, but I cant remember where I got that from
Quote:9215
I thought all players and staff were tested multiple times in a week, but I cant remember where I got that from
Ok, so if thats the case, which would be great practice, we await the results in North London. Do you know what the forfeit threshold might be?
Its a 20-0 victory if the opposition is unable to field a team. I dont think its been said how the 20 is made up, but Im assuming its 4 tries
Quote:9215
Its a 20-0 victory if the opposition is unable to field a team. I dont think its been said how the 20 is made up, but Im assuming its 4 tries
True, but only 4 points, I meant how many players need to be infected before the club have to forfeit the game? Just wondered if you had read that somewhere as I can't find it easily.
That I dont know, but Id guess it would be whether there were demonstrably enough unaffected players to put a side out rather than how many positive tests
I want to go there and beat them on the pitch...................
It would give my Sarries supporting Brother in Law a lifetime's worth of banter material (aka tedious repetitive whining material) if it is forfeit!
I am sure he would also say it was conspiracy to get at Saracens even if the entire 23 were tested positive!
It would give my Sarries supporting Brother in Law a lifetime's worth of banter material (aka tedious repetitive whining material) if it is forfeit!
I am sure he would also say it was conspiracy to get at Saracens even if the entire 23 were tested positive!
If Sarries have to forfeit because they've tested positive it's 5 points to us. If it were down to, say, London being locked down it would be 2 points each.
Quote:hasta
If Sarries have to forfeit because they've tested positive it's 5 points to us. If it were down to, say, London being locked down it would be 2 points each.
Hadn't thought of that! So do you know the answer to the other question then, is there a number of players that have to test positive or is it just one individual.
Castres were kicked out of the euro game for having 'too many' that had tested positive - so guess there is a threshold.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
McCall:
We would like to go out with a bang on Sunday. It will be Brad Barritts last game and I dont know whether he will be available yet as hes going through the protocols but I really hope he makes it. We wont lack motivation as it is Richard Wigglesworths 250th appearance and 100 for Michael Rhodes.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
We would like to go out with a bang on Sunday. It will be Brad Barritts last game and I dont know whether he will be available yet as hes going through the protocols but I really hope he makes it. We wont lack motivation as it is Richard Wigglesworths 250th appearance and 100 for Michael Rhodes.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
I want to go there and beat them on the pitch...................
I completely agree, Bath need to beat Saracens on the pitch. They have come a long way since lockdown but to take the next step they need to beat the biggest teams in a fair fight on the park. If Bath beat Saracens they can go into the playoffs confident they can beat anyone. If Bath get through due to a covid bye or one of the other teams failing to win, I don't think the team will believe they are ready to beat Exeter.
Quote:BepetasQuote:Bath Supporter Jack
I want to go there and beat them on the pitch...................
I completely agree, Bath need to beat Saracens on the pitch. They have come a long way since lockdown but to take the next step they need to beat the biggest teams in a fair fight on the park. If Bath beat Saracens they can go into the playoffs confident they can beat anyone. If Bath get through due to a covid bye or one of the other teams failing to win, I don't think the team will believe they are ready to beat Exeter.
Not sure if the appearances make a difference, it didn't for Robshaw. I'd love a win on the pitch but frankly, I'd take prefer a bye now than in the semi or the final.
Wow... its 9 Racing 92 players that have tested positive! !
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
If they forfeit, they forfeit. Not in our control. They've got an excellent first XV, but they've had two massive games in two weeks, lost a couple of key players to suspension or injury, their backups played midweek and 'going out with a bang' should not be as big a motivating factor as making the top four. Our guys should be absolutely revved up for this like it was a Quarter-Final.
What a bizarre suggestion bring up Covid and potential positive Sarries tests when there's been no suggestion of that and clubs obviously isolate positive cases and have done for weeks.
Quote:ballsout
What a bizarre suggestion bring up Covid and potential positive Sarries tests when there's been no suggestion of that and clubs obviously isolate positive cases and have done for weeks.
9 Players test positive in the team you played 5 days ago and that's bizarre. How long is the average incubation period then BO.
You think Sarries aren't worried? Do you think Exeter are disinterested?
Re COVID tests, wow.
In terms of motivation I think there are times when there can be too many motives especially when players are leaving or retiring, it can be a distraction.
In terms of motivation I think there are times when there can be too many motives especially when players are leaving or retiring, it can be a distraction.
Fingers crossed rather than wiggled in North London that none of our players have got it.
It'll be interesting to know when the last test for those Racing players was prior to the test that they were positive.
As for the game I hope it goes ahead even if we have to play a team stripped of some of the players. It would be a poor show for a top4 determining game to be handed to one team over another because of this virus. Also even without the crowds and win, lose or draw it would be nice for some of the Saracens players to say good bye on the field.
It'll be interesting to know when the last test for those Racing players was prior to the test that they were positive.
As for the game I hope it goes ahead even if we have to play a team stripped of some of the players. It would be a poor show for a top4 determining game to be handed to one team over another because of this virus. Also even without the crowds and win, lose or draw it would be nice for some of the Saracens players to say good bye on the field.
Quote:shipwrecked
Wow... its 9 Racing 92 players that have tested positive! !
Sorry to hear that still 83 to choose from...
Quote:BepetasQuote:shipwrecked
Wow... its 9 Racing 92 players that have tested positive! !
Sorry to hear that still 83 to choose from...
Super smart Bepetas!
IMHO it is concerning and I hope none of the Saracens players, staff or families are affected - I am not surprised in relation to French clubs testing positive having seen their crowds and side line staff with masks perched under the nose or around their necks - PPE doing what exactly?? However we need to concentrate on our goal and this sort of attention is nothing but a distraction.
I don't mean to sound heartless but other than hoping all players are well because this has to be the overriding issue - We have to train and coach to face a Saracens 1st XV on Sunday with the sole goal of securing a win and hopefully a Bonus point nothing else.
I don't mean to sound heartless but other than hoping all players are well because this has to be the overriding issue - We have to train and coach to face a Saracens 1st XV on Sunday with the sole goal of securing a win and hopefully a Bonus point nothing else.
If Sarries were playing against infected players last weekend, some of them could have become infected. How long before that shows up in a positive test? I think they test players at the end of the week just in time for the team to be selected? If there are positives amongst them, then it has to be assumed the whole team has been exposed and they won't be allowed to play. I don't know what the threshold is but Castres has 3 players and one staff test positive. I guess we'll find out by noon today.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Jay,
"The time from exposure to symptom onset (known as the incubation period) is thought to be three to 14 days, though symptoms typically appear within four or five days after exposure. We know that a person with COVID-19 may be contagious 48 to 72 hours before starting to experience symptoms."
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
"The time from exposure to symptom onset (known as the incubation period) is thought to be three to 14 days, though symptoms typically appear within four or five days after exposure. We know that a person with COVID-19 may be contagious 48 to 72 hours before starting to experience symptoms."
Quote:shipwrecked
Jay,
"The time from exposure to symptom onset (known as the incubation period) is thought to be three to 14 days, though symptoms typically appear within four or five days after exposure. We know that a person with COVID-19 may be contagious 48 to 72 hours before starting to experience symptoms."
Yes, but how long after infection before you will test positive? Is it straight away? If you believe anything coming out of the WH, it seems like it was pretty quick for the orange moron and wife.
Talking of believing stuff, all team announcements postponed until tomorrow 'because of midweek matches'. Really? They've known about that for weeks.
Can you imagine how upset (probably) Bristol would be if Sarries have to default? I can imagine the lawyers are already hard at work!
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Quote:jayeatmanQuote:shipwrecked
Jay,
"The time from exposure to symptom onset (known as the incubation period) is thought to be three to 14 days, though symptoms typically appear within four or five days after exposure. We know that a person with COVID-19 may be contagious 48 to 72 hours before starting to experience symptoms."
Yes, but how long after infection before you will test positive? Is it straight away?
If you have symptoms you will test positive (about 70% accurate) so 4-5 days. Asymptomatic cases the chances of a positive test drop but it varies as to how much.
Quote:hasta
Team Up delayed 24 hours until tomorrow due to midweek games.
Is that credible or an excuse for something else?
Yeah it happened with someone (Sale? I think?) ahead of our game with them earlier. Again after a midweek. Teams don't have to be announced until 24 hours before a game anyway, it's just that usually for Sunday games they do them on Friday.
it seems to have become the norm for midweek games - looks like no team has posted at midday today.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:It was Sale, but I thought Diamond said something about COVID testing delaying things. Maybe midweek games necessarily delay COVID testing?hasta
Yeah it happened with someone (Sale? I think?) ahead of our game with them earlier. Again after a midweek. Teams don't have to be announced until 24 hours before a game anyway, it's just that usually for Sunday games they do them on Friday.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Sale again then.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's just them though.
Can't wait to see how Premiership Rugby fudge their way out of this one.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
I wouldn't be surprised if it's just them though.
Can't wait to see how Premiership Rugby fudge their way out of this one.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Suggestion in Daily Mail that Sale have multiple positive Covid 19 tests from players and staff and that they may have to forfeit the match to the Warriors.
Can you imagine Steve Diamond at this very Point
- I take it Premiership Rugby are giving Sale and possibly Saracens every opportunity to convince the powers that be they are not a health risk. If reports are true "Good Luck With That!"
Can you imagine Steve Diamond at this very Point
- I take it Premiership Rugby are giving Sale and possibly Saracens every opportunity to convince the powers that be they are not a health risk. If reports are true "Good Luck With That!"
[www.premiershiprugby.com]
Referee: Wayne Barnes (230th Premiership game). Assistant Referees: Craig Maxwell-Keys & Paul Dix. TMO: Luke Pearce. Citing Officer: Allister Hogg.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Referee: Wayne Barnes (230th Premiership game). Assistant Referees: Craig Maxwell-Keys & Paul Dix. TMO: Luke Pearce. Citing Officer: Allister Hogg.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
https://www.premiershiprugby.com/match-preview/match-preview-round-22-saracens-v-bath-rugby#preview
Referee: Wayne Barnes (230th Premiership game). Assistant Referees: Craig Maxwell-Keys & Paul Dix. TMO: Luke Pearce. Citing Officer: Allis ofter Hogg.
That's a heavy duty bunch of officials for our game...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Quote:Clarkey3kQuote:BathMatt53
https://www.premiershiprugby.com/match-preview/match-preview-round-22-saracens-v-bath-rugby#preview
Referee: Wayne Barnes (230th Premiership game). Assistant Referees: Craig Maxwell-Keys & Paul Dix. TMO: Luke Pearce. Citing Officer: Allis ofter Hogg.
That's a heavy duty bunch of officials for our game...
Both Dix and CMK are very intervenist as linesmen. Anyone might think they're expecting trouble...
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Hope so Joe. Sarries get touchy when losing, people like George and Wray become argumentative and Rhodes goes around hurting people. Billy sometimes looses his cool as well. I see the choice of officials as a positive and that Sarries little tricks will be kept under control.
Come on you Bath.
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
Come on you Bath.
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
Quote:joethefanaticQuote:Clarkey3kQuote:BathMatt53
https://www.premiershiprugby.com/match-preview/match-preview-round-22-saracens-v-bath-rugby#preview
Referee: Wayne Barnes (230th Premiership game). Assistant Referees: Craig Maxwell-Keys & Paul Dix. TMO: Luke Pearce. Citing Officer: Allis ofter Hogg.
That's a heavy duty bunch of officials for our game...
Both Dix and CMK are very intervenist as linesmen. Anyone might think they're expecting trouble...
Could turn into a card game then !!
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Ben Spencer on his move to Bath and pre match thoughts as well as a simple permutations guide - [www.dailymail.co.uk].
On a related note Wuss not travelling to Sale until Sunday morning and Sale are recalling Sam Tuitupo [38yr] who was signed to my old junior club up North for the season just gone. It all sounds v desperate for Sale...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
On a related note Wuss not travelling to Sale until Sunday morning and Sale are recalling Sam Tuitupo [38yr] who was signed to my old junior club up North for the season just gone. It all sounds v desperate for Sale...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
BATH RUGBY SIDE TO FACE SARACENS
15. Anthony Watson, 14. Semesa Rokoduguni, 13. Jonathan Joseph, 12. Josh Matavesi, 11. Ruaridh McConnochie, 10. Rhys Priestland, 9. Ben Spencer; 1. Beno Obano, 2. Tom Dunn, 3. Will Stuart, 4. Josh McNally, 5. Charlie Ewels (C), 6. Mike Williams, 7. Sam Underhill, 8. Taulupe Faletau
REPLACEMENTS
16. Jack Walker, 17. Lewis Boyce, 18. Christian Judge, 19. Will Spencer, 20. Miles Reid, 21. Will Chudley, 22. Cameron Redpath, 23. Joe Cokanasiga
15. Anthony Watson, 14. Semesa Rokoduguni, 13. Jonathan Joseph, 12. Josh Matavesi, 11. Ruaridh McConnochie, 10. Rhys Priestland, 9. Ben Spencer; 1. Beno Obano, 2. Tom Dunn, 3. Will Stuart, 4. Josh McNally, 5. Charlie Ewels (C), 6. Mike Williams, 7. Sam Underhill, 8. Taulupe Faletau
REPLACEMENTS
16. Jack Walker, 17. Lewis Boyce, 18. Christian Judge, 19. Will Spencer, 20. Miles Reid, 21. Will Chudley, 22. Cameron Redpath, 23. Joe Cokanasiga
SARACENS
15. Elliot Daly, 14. Alex Lewington, 13. Dom Morris, 12. Juan Pablo Socino, 11. Sean Maitland, 10. Manu Vunipola, 9. Richard Wigglesworth; 1. Richard Barrington, 2. Jamie George (C), 3. Vincent Koch, 4. Maro Itoje, 5. Tim Swinson, 6. Callum Hunter-Hill, 7. Jackson Wray, 8. Billy Vunipola
REPLACEMENTS
16. Tom Woolstencroft, 17. Sam Crean, 18. Alec Clarey, 19. Joel Kpoku, 20. Janco Venter, 21. Aled Davies, 22. Harry Sloan, 23. Rotimi Segun
15. Elliot Daly, 14. Alex Lewington, 13. Dom Morris, 12. Juan Pablo Socino, 11. Sean Maitland, 10. Manu Vunipola, 9. Richard Wigglesworth; 1. Richard Barrington, 2. Jamie George (C), 3. Vincent Koch, 4. Maro Itoje, 5. Tim Swinson, 6. Callum Hunter-Hill, 7. Jackson Wray, 8. Billy Vunipola
REPLACEMENTS
16. Tom Woolstencroft, 17. Sam Crean, 18. Alec Clarey, 19. Joel Kpoku, 20. Janco Venter, 21. Aled Davies, 22. Harry Sloan, 23. Rotimi Segun
still no team news from wuss or sale. there is a statement from prem rugby saying they are involving Public Health England and that a decision about the game taking place cannot be rushed. so expect something later today.
What has happened to Zachary Mercer, is he injured, out of favour or something else, if fit why is he not in the squad?
Quote:bardofavon
still no team news from wuss or sale. there is a statement from prem rugby saying they are involving Public Health England and that a decision about the game taking place cannot be rushed. so expect something later today.
Worcester have put a team up. Sale, Northampton, and Gloucester havent yet
Quote:bardofavon
still no team news from wuss or sale. there is a statement from prem rugby saying they are involving Public Health England and that a decision about the game taking place cannot be rushed. so expect something later today.
So PHE become the reason for cancellation rather than PR. Great leadership.
Well looks like a full strengtn Bath team and Saracens one missing a fair few XV players so I feel we'll see a Bath win. Just hope that we see a good game and if you end up top4 that the League gets to complete the knock-out stages.
Yeah sure they do. Both players pretty much model professionals where I can think of a couple of instances in their careers where they have been like that including Wrays frustration with the clown Pearce who decided to let Quins kill the ball all game.
Quote:Bathovalballer
people like George and Wray become argumentative
Yeah sure they do. Both players pretty much model professionals where I can think of a couple of instances in their careers where they have been like that including Wrays frustration with the clown Pearce who decided to let Quins kill the ball all game.
Is this game seriously going ahead without any Covid checks?
As Saracens last opponents have 9 positive cases surely the match should be under the same investigation that Sales is?
I would prefer to progress by playing but what happens if, for example, Bath win then lose half their squad to Covid for the next round?
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
As Saracens last opponents have 9 positive cases surely the match should be under the same investigation that Sales is?
I would prefer to progress by playing but what happens if, for example, Bath win then lose half their squad to Covid for the next round?
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Quote:P G Tips
Is this game seriously going ahead without any Covid checks?
As Saracens last opponents have 9 positive cases surely the match should be under the same investigation that Sales is?
I would prefer to progress by playing but what happens if, for example, Bath win then lose half their squad to Covid for the next round?
++1
That's the issue Semi Final date is 10th October
Quote:D s & t dad
What has happened to Zachary Mercer, is he injured, out of favour or something else, if fit why is he not in the squad?
Also would have liked TdG as a late counter attack option.
PG
Assuming it goes ahead then if we can stay within two scores come bench time then we have a good chance of winning but the sarries mindset 1 - 23 is impressive and it won't be easy
Quote:P G Tips
Is this game seriously going ahead without any Covid checks?
As Saracens last opponents have 9 positive cases surely the match should be under the same investigation that Sales is?
I would prefer to progress by playing but what happens if, for example, Bath win then lose half their squad to Covid for the next round?
All teams are tested multiple times each week - so presumably Sarries are all testing negative (penultimate opponents for them as well!) Issue for Sale is that they are testing positive (and 16! Players). Saints are slightly more analogous.
[quote hasta][quote P G Tips]so presumably Sarries are all testing negative[/quote]
Hopefully but given we're missing quite a few I'm not so sure. I thought it unlikely we'd see either centre as both came off injured in their last game but we're missing 3 or 4 in addition to that.
I agree with the above that if there is any doubt then call the match off as sad as that would be it simply isn't worth the risk.
Given the issue was raised from Sale players late in the week I think most teams would have done their usual test already. Possibly PRL pushing the teams back a day allowed an extra test on friday with results today?
Hopefully but given we're missing quite a few I'm not so sure. I thought it unlikely we'd see either centre as both came off injured in their last game but we're missing 3 or 4 in addition to that.
I agree with the above that if there is any doubt then call the match off as sad as that would be it simply isn't worth the risk.
Given the issue was raised from Sale players late in the week I think most teams would have done their usual test already. Possibly PRL pushing the teams back a day allowed an extra test on friday with results today?
Must stop drinking 4pts of henry Weston finest I had a dream beat sarries, beat brizz, beat exe in the final...or was it the dodgy pork pie that's giving me hallucinations...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:03:20:21:31 by Mr Frivolous.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:03:20:21:31 by Mr Frivolous.
Why no Alex Goode....................must be injured?
He has in the past beaten Bath on his own!
He has in the past beaten Bath on his own!
Sam v Billy could be interesting !
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Whilst that sarries squad is still strong they have lost about 10 v good options since the start of the season and since the euro semis have also lost mako, rhodes, goode, barritt and taylor.
If we dont win then we don't deserve to be in the play offs given we can select from a pretty full squad and are going in after 12 days rest.
If we dont win then we don't deserve to be in the play offs given we can select from a pretty full squad and are going in after 12 days rest.
Bookies see a tight game with Sarries favoured to win, Oddschecker - Looking at the two teams I think it's going to be our day today...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Quote:Mr Frivolous
Must stop drinking 4pts of henry Weston finest I had a dream beat sarries, beat brizz, beat exe in the final...or was it the dodgy pork pie that's giving me hallucinations...
Haha dangerous stuff that westons goes down to easy
Lets be honest boys this is not a vintage sarries team they still have 5 odd world class players but if we cant beat them without all the players that have left and all the players currently out Injured banned etc then we dont deserve to go any further. Come on bath
Quote:sirtidychris
Lets be honest boys this is not a vintage sarries team they still have 5 odd world class players but if we cant beat them without all the players that have left and all the players currently out Injured banned etc then we dont deserve to go any further. Come on bath
+1. The bookies have Sarries as 4pt favorites and it will be piddling down with rain so I don't expect it to be a classic but Bath should be capable of winning. Wigglesworth won't have any leather left on his kicking boot afterwards that's for sure but RM , AW and SR are all pretty good in the air so fingers crossed.
[edit: cheers SW, Sale on the brain clearly]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:04:11:54:19 by BathMatt53.
Location edit needed Matt.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Good luck for later.
Wet and windy in North London right now so I hope that the respective wingers get some action rather than freeze on the wings all game.
Wet and windy in North London right now so I hope that the respective wingers get some action rather than freeze on the wings all game.
Quote:OldMarovian
Good luck for later.
Wet and windy in North London right now so I hope that the respective wingers get some action rather than freeze on the wings all game.
Appreciated, hope your lot have read the memo about wearing masks in scrums?
Best of luck to the boys this afternoon.
Whatever the result, the spirit, fight and results since lockdown have been fantastic.
Whatever the result, the spirit, fight and results since lockdown have been fantastic.
Quote:Dorset Boy
Best of luck to the boys this afternoon.
Whatever the result, the spirit, fight and results since lockdown have been fantastic.
+1 and says it all
Is this the match thread?
Also why have they put both games on at the same time.
Also why have they put both games on at the same time.
It was last match.
Last game of the season all matches start at the same time so that there is no advantage in knowing what result is needed for playoffs. Should have been 6 matches but now 4 after shenanigans!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Last game of the season all matches start at the same time so that there is no advantage in knowing what result is needed for playoffs. Should have been 6 matches but now 4 after shenanigans!
Sam Underhill holds Billy up! Love it!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Spencer quick thinking!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:04:15:23:07 by shipwrecked.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:04:15:23:07 by shipwrecked.
Dave Egerton co-commentating on Radio Bristol.
Good to hear some knowledgeable comments, for a change
Good to hear some knowledgeable comments, for a change
Watson fielding all Wigglesworth's kicks, Dunn keeping Billy quite, Ben Spencer kicking so accurate, little battles all over the pitch. Just hope they can keep it up!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Agreed Everton is very good, highlights how useless Sheridan is
FLAP
FLAP
Quote:sid the seagull
Agreed Everton is very good, highlights how useless Sheridan is
FLAP
Yep 4-2 yesterday against Palace, James Rodrguez with 2 decent goals.
Underhiill bringing his England game and Faletau his Wakes game is making a difference. Spencer, Oriestland and McConnoghie also standing out.
Quote:Optimist
Underhiill bringing his England game and Faletau his Wakes game is making a difference. Spencer, Oriestland and McConnoghie also standing out.
New signings and countries Opti!
Cut out the penalties and this is ours, we might even be able to stop giving them opportunities to get a foothold. Mind you, theyll come out in the second half with their @#$%& on fire. Soak that up, job done.
On the evidence today, high energy and high physicality team stuff behind that Priestland is doing enough for another 1 year contract
Theyll have the wind behind them in the second half and were one pen away from a yellow. Our bench looks stronger though, plus theyve had even more injury issues with 3 or 4 enforced changes already.
I shall be pacing nervously behind the sofa for the next 40.
I shall be pacing nervously behind the sofa for the next 40.
But in addition to those mentioned I would add Mike Williams having a great game
Quote:gaz59
But in addition to those mentioned I would add Mike Williams having a great game
Curse of Gaz sees him replaced immediately with young Miles Reid!
Weather suiting Rhys Priestland, Welsh style rain!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Sarries penalty try after several scrums in defence
10 v 17
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:04:16:33:31 by Mike the Taxi.
10 v 17
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:04:16:33:31 by Mike the Taxi.
All a little fraught, as the scrum dominance has faded somewhat!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Come on lads!
You can do it!
PG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:04:16:41:51 by P G Tips.
You can do it!
PG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:04:16:41:51 by P G Tips.
Bath steal Sarries line out but Itoje comes through and over for try
15 v 17
15 v 17
A few minutes to show what we are, I'm a bit down, but if we can't beat a team with nothing to play for with a two score half time lead, there's no point is getting a semi final place.
Why did we try to close that game out from the 40th minute? Didnt deserve it in the end. Spencer got it wrong.
Too late bringing on Judge, Stuart was exhausted.
A bit unlucky on the 2nd try, but credit to Sarries, they never gave up.
A bit unlucky on the 2nd try, but credit to Sarries, they never gave up.
Poor last 20. Sarries clearly more mentally there. We are a couple of years off that fortitude. First half showed we could take anyone on. Second half reveals our fragility.
Our scrum fell apart against their replacement front row and that's where we lost it. We couldn 't then get possession or territory.
Second Sarries try was so unlucky after a great lineout steal.
Very disappointing as they were superb in the first 25 minutes.
Penalty count was horrendous too.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:04:16:56:52 by Dorset Boy.
Second Sarries try was so unlucky after a great lineout steal.
Very disappointing as they were superb in the first 25 minutes.
Penalty count was horrendous too.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:04:16:56:52 by Dorset Boy.
Was it Austin who said "bath just stopped playing at the wrong time and sarries realised." True enough but...
If you want to win anything you don't stop playing.
If you want to win anything you don't stop playing.
Got what we deserved for that 2nd half. We stopped playing completely. That was a collective choke no individual to blame. They will be gutted when reviewing that, but in the same breath, they should also be proud at how they turned their season around since lockdown.
Long restart by Priestland and inexplicable long kick, where no kick required by Watson, stick in the kind of particular big chokes.
Also, not sure replacing Ruaridh with big Joe was the right call. Surely better to keep Ruaridh on, who had played well, and switch out Roko instead.
Normally a draw at Sarries would be a good result, but I'm just left really disappointed now.
Also, not sure replacing Ruaridh with big Joe was the right call. Surely better to keep Ruaridh on, who had played well, and switch out Roko instead.
Normally a draw at Sarries would be a good result, but I'm just left really disappointed now.
Sarries showed their undoubted quality, but we let that slip through our fingers. Gutting, but we still might get a trip to Exeter next week.
Arghh so frustrating cant blame anyone but ourselves. However all other teams we needed to put up a fight against our top 4 opposition have just rolled over and been drilled. What was one of the closest premiership's in memory at the start of the season is very much 5 decent teams and the rest are dross at least for once we are one of the decent teams. Let's hope Worcester dont roll over now but I won't hold my breath. Anyway cant be too negative the boys have smashed it since the restart whatever happens and we have the second most wins in the prem.
Just the 17 players Sarries lost to injury and we STILL choked. Zero surprise, this club are the biggest under-achievers the league has ever seen.
Amazing first half, stopped playing in the second half. Lost because our much-praised scrum lost out to a couple of Championship props.
Awful. We fall to pieces so easily.
Amazing first half, stopped playing in the second half. Lost because our much-praised scrum lost out to a couple of Championship props.
Awful. We fall to pieces so easily.
We always stop playing when we think the game is won, always. Idiotic.
Fingers crossed the Sale game is called off, otherwise we'll be 5th, which allowing for Sarries' docked points, would actually be 6th. Same old, same old.
Fingers crossed the Sale game is called off, otherwise we'll be 5th, which allowing for Sarries' docked points, would actually be 6th. Same old, same old.
Very very poor by Bath in the second half. We stopped playing. Why? Where was the on field leadership by the senior players? Our replacement props not the same standard as Sarries. Taking of McInally was wrong as was replacing Williams.
We blew the chance to win for the first time. It shows how much we need to step up to match the best. Sarries had many injuries, many youngsters, all who wanted it more than us. How can we expect to win anything after giving up a 3-17 lead. Sides like Exeter, Wasps, Sale and most other Prem sides would not do that.
I know being fifth after the season start, is much better than I believed we could achieve. But after doing all the hard work, we should really have kicked on. And giving it to Bristol, hurts even more.
I feel the gin getting a hammering tonight.
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
We blew the chance to win for the first time. It shows how much we need to step up to match the best. Sarries had many injuries, many youngsters, all who wanted it more than us. How can we expect to win anything after giving up a 3-17 lead. Sides like Exeter, Wasps, Sale and most other Prem sides would not do that.
I know being fifth after the season start, is much better than I believed we could achieve. But after doing all the hard work, we should really have kicked on. And giving it to Bristol, hurts even more.
I feel the gin getting a hammering tonight.
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
Watson got over the gainline pretty much every time. Instead of putting pace on the follow up phase, Spencer then slowed it to a snail pace every single time. Priestland should have demanded more and quicker ball, but thats never been his way.
Also with glass half full. With the Sale farce its hardly the best prep for a Semi final if we do somehow get to the Playoffs.
J
J
In the lap of the Gods now and I wish you the best of luck.
Seriously unimpressed with Barnes but I thought Bath played brilliantly in the first half. Underhill ending any Saracens carriers that tried to breach the gainline and Spencer controlling things nicely.
Regardless of what happens next the future looks bright for Bath.
Seriously unimpressed with Barnes but I thought Bath played brilliantly in the first half. Underhill ending any Saracens carriers that tried to breach the gainline and Spencer controlling things nicely.
Regardless of what happens next the future looks bright for Bath.
Quote:Pathetic!!. Do you know Hooper personally? #Agenda. To my mind what you have to say is of no value as you conspicuously fail to comment on anything positive associated with the club. Top repetitive trolling.ballsout
Just the 17 players Sarries lost to injury and we STILL choked. Zero surprise, this club are the biggest under-achievers the league has ever seen.
Amazing first half, stopped playing in the second half. Lost because our much-praised scrum lost out to a couple of Championship props.
Awful. We fall to pieces so easily.
Horrible last 20. Boyce was getting murdered in the scrum but loads of silly errors compounded it. Not sure I want to make the semis now as a game away to Exeter doesnt fill me with hope. We have improved but still a way away from a finished team.
Quote:Rawce
Wheres ballbags? Here he is! The Colin Robinson of the rugby world.
Quote:Long TermQuote:Pathetic!!. Do you know Hooper personally? #Agenda. To my mind what you have to say is of no value as you conspicuously fail to comment on anything positive associated with the club. Top repetitive trolling.ballsout
Just the 17 players Sarries lost to injury and we STILL choked. Zero surprise, this club are the biggest under-achievers the league has ever seen.
Amazing first half, stopped playing in the second half. Lost because our much-praised scrum lost out to a couple of Championship props.
Awful. We fall to pieces so easily.
And yet, proved right. Every season.
OMG, the troll has reappeared from under its bridge.
So predictable.
Probably the only delighted Bath fan tonight.
So predictable.
Probably the only delighted Bath fan tonight.
Quote:Yes Boyce's scrummaging is proving to be a liability. Penalties in second quarter cost us momentum and Priestland's kick direct into touch followed by a scrum penalty, after their first try, was a killer!ken_jnr
Horrible last 20. Boyce was getting murdered in the scrum but loads of silly errors compounded it. Not sure I want to make the semis now as a game away to Exeter doesnt fill me with hope. We have improved but still a way away from a finished team.
Quote:Dorset Boy
OMG, the troll has reappeared from under its bridge.
So predictable.
Probably the only delighted Bath fan tonight.
Stick to ignorantly moaning about referees, you're better at that.
Disappointing has to be the word, the games against Wasps and Saracens have revealed our soft underbelly when it really gets tough. You cannot just defend and keep kicking ball back to these top teams. Lots of good individual performances on the Bath side but Itoje was just outstanding, keeping his team going almost single handedly.
We don't deserve to make the semis and away to Exeter does not appeal.
Question is how much do we want to continue our improvement to become a genuine top four side and that has got to start at No 10. Priestland has played well but he is just not the sort of player to fire up the backs.
We don't deserve to make the semis and away to Exeter does not appeal.
Question is how much do we want to continue our improvement to become a genuine top four side and that has got to start at No 10. Priestland has played well but he is just not the sort of player to fire up the backs.
Quote:ballsoutQuote:Rawce
Wheres ballbags? Here he is! The Colin Robinson of the rugby world.Quote:Long TermQuote:Pathetic!!. Do you know Hooper personally? #Agenda. To my mind what you have to say is of no value as you conspicuously fail to comment on anything positive associated with the club. Top repetitive trolling.ballsout
Just the 17 players Sarries lost to injury and we STILL choked. Zero surprise, this club are the biggest under-achievers the league has ever seen.
Amazing first half, stopped playing in the second half. Lost because our much-praised scrum lost out to a couple of Championship props.
Awful. We fall to pieces so easily.
And yet, proved right. Every season.
Were you not saying Hooper was a disaster and we would not win another game earlier in the season? Has there been no improvement?. Personally I have enjoyed watching Bath's progress this season, but then you would say I have rose tinted glasses,( it is possible if you don't have an agenda). By the way I am aware of the failings in our play, I don't need them pointed out with glee at every opportunity.
Some thoughts:
Itoje was absolutely world class in that second half. An absolute pain in the neck all the time and pounced on stolen lineout to get their second try.
If Reid-Roko had stuck then we'd have won by miles.
The Priestland missed touch after their pen try was amateurishly awful at the worst possible time.
Way too many penalties conceded.
So annoyed. Really bad 'old Bath'. No killer instinct.
Itoje was absolutely world class in that second half. An absolute pain in the neck all the time and pounced on stolen lineout to get their second try.
If Reid-Roko had stuck then we'd have won by miles.
The Priestland missed touch after their pen try was amateurishly awful at the worst possible time.
Way too many penalties conceded.
So annoyed. Really bad 'old Bath'. No killer instinct.
Quote:Long TermQuote:ballsoutQuote:Rawce
Wheres ballbags? Here he is! The Colin Robinson of the rugby world.Quote:Long TermQuote:ballsout
Just the 17 players Sarries lost to injury and we STILL choked. Zero surprise, this club are the biggest under-achievers the league has ever seen.
Amazing first half, stopped playing in the second half. Lost because our much-praised scrum lost out to a couple of Championship props.
Awful. We fall to pieces so easily.
Pathetic!!. Do you know Hooper personally? #Agenda. To my mind what you have to say is of no value as you conspicuously fail to comment on anything positive associated with the club. Top repetitive trolling.
And yet, proved right. Every season.
Were you not saying Hooper was a disaster and we would not win another game earlier in the season? Has there been no improvement?. Personally I have enjoyed watching Bath's progress this season, but then you would say I have rose tinted glasses,( it is possible if you don't have an agenda). By the way I am aware of the failings in our play, I don't need them pointed out with glee at every opportunity.
Enough with this "showing glee at us losing". I couldn't be any more f-ed off after that.
We've done really well since the restart but us missing out on the play offs (for the 9th time in the last 10 seasons) just smacks of the same old chronic under-performance that terrorises this club. It's the same old story. While Sale, and probably Bristol are winning trophies this year, we win or amount to nothing, as usual.
I take no pleasure from stating the facts, quite the opposite it royally f's me off, especially today's latest choke in a long line of Bath chokes.
Amazing response from some so called supporters the moment we draw, not lose, away to Saracens. There has been a huge improvement in our standard of play, resilience & competitiveness since the season resumed. The coaching team had done a fantastic job & Hooper always speaks in an intelligent & balanced way & never avoid issues. Our attacking play still needs more speed, fluidity & cohesion but we already knew that. It doesnt seem that Jurgen Dempsey has made a significant difference so he may be a weak link in the otherwise excellent team of coaches. It would be great if we can entice that South African f/h. I certainly dont blame everything on Rhys as he has been outstanding in so many ways but we could do with another attacking option who might compliment what Spencer has brought. All in all, I expected us to finish in 5th but we came very close. Away to Exeter would no doubt be a step to far at present but lets hope for further improvement next season so we an put in a real challenge.
Quote:All invalidated by ignoring all of the good we do (and theres been so much since lockdown) and only focussing on the negative. The best we can expect from you is a begrudging climb down, well after the fact.ballsout
Enough with this "showing glee at us losing". I couldn't be any more f-ed off after that.
We've done really well since the restart but us missing out on the play offs (for the 9th time in the last 10 seasons) just smacks of the same old chronic under-performance that terrorises this club. It's the same old story. While Sale, and probably Bristol are winning trophies this year, we win or amount to nothing, as usual.
I take no pleasure from stating the facts, quite the opposite it royally f's me off, especially today's latest choke in a long line of Bath chokes.
Priestland was stand out first half, so not the reason we lost, one of the reasons we were up at half time. Boyce has been one of our most improved since Hatley has got hold of him. Yes, he struggled a today against a resurgent Sarries pack, but we were collectively in retreat at the time.
I'm not blaming any individual for the loss (not least because, you know, we didn't actually lose). But the second half performance by the team was infuriating and characterised by old, stupid errors, and old, stupid penalties.
The restart stands out because it was exactly the time for everyone to take a breath, refocus and move on. Instead we made an unforced error and were immediately back in our shells, tight and not taking control of the game.
The restart stands out because it was exactly the time for everyone to take a breath, refocus and move on. Instead we made an unforced error and were immediately back in our shells, tight and not taking control of the game.
The weather deteriorated markedly in the second half so we were playing in to a gale. The rain wasnt conducive to keeping the ball in hand either. So that was plan A and plan B out the window. Having said that we drew got 14 to 3 with the wind and so did they- draw fair result. Disappointing but fair.
No need for ranting or the usual OB negativity. Funny how he rarely posts when we win.
No need for ranting or the usual OB negativity. Funny how he rarely posts when we win.
Quote:Bath Hammer
Amazing response from some so called supporters the moment we draw, not lose, away to Saracens. There has been a huge improvement in our standard of play, resilience & competitiveness since the season resumed. The coaching team had done a fantastic job & Hooper always speaks in an intelligent & balanced way & never avoid issues. Our attacking play still needs more speed, fluidity & cohesion but we already knew that. It doesnt seem that Jurgen Dempsey has made a significant difference so he may be a weak link in the otherwise excellent team of coaches. It would be great if we can entice that South African f/h. I certainly dont blame everything on Rhys as he has been outstanding in so many ways but we could do with another attacking option who might compliment what Spencer has brought. All in all, I expected us to finish in 5th but we came very close. Away to Exeter would no doubt be a step to far at present but lets hope for further improvement next season so we an put in a real challenge.
Agreed
I wonder if missing out of the playoffs, well missing out on an away day in Exeter, might be the best result now for the squad as it would mean the momentum that has been built post lockdown isn't stalled or stopped. It Also gives more rest time ahead of the new season.
The issue I have with our team in the second half we became so passive. There was no noise from our team at all, it was eerily quiet. Hardly any encouraging of each other. No one really in the ear of the ref. Just seemed to lack leadership. When Sarries started 'shouting and balling' at every little win, we seemed to go meekly into our shells.
The difference in this aspect between the teams was marked. Saracens seem to play the ref as much as the game - every ruck we competed at, their players were pointing and shouting to the ref, every maul trying to tell the ref everything we are doing wrong. Painting that picture verbally to the officials. When slightly on top they celebrate like scoring a try. This can only be designed to subtly (or not so much) influence the officials.
Not complaining about them, but its something we could learn from.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:04:18:47:11 by BathSalmon.
The difference in this aspect between the teams was marked. Saracens seem to play the ref as much as the game - every ruck we competed at, their players were pointing and shouting to the ref, every maul trying to tell the ref everything we are doing wrong. Painting that picture verbally to the officials. When slightly on top they celebrate like scoring a try. This can only be designed to subtly (or not so much) influence the officials.
Not complaining about them, but its something we could learn from.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:04:18:47:11 by BathSalmon.
TBF, we were a lot more vocal in the first half, then went shell shocked in the second. The ability is there, the ability to sustain it for 80 mins is lacking.
Quote:RawceQuote:All invalidated by ignoring all of the good we do (and theres been so much since lockdown) and only focussing on the negative. The best we can expect from you is a begrudging climb down, well after the fact.ballsout
Enough with this "showing glee at us losing". I couldn't be any more f-ed off after that.
We've done really well since the restart but us missing out on the play offs (for the 9th time in the last 10 seasons) just smacks of the same old chronic under-performance that terrorises this club. It's the same old story. While Sale, and probably Bristol are winning trophies this year, we win or amount to nothing, as usual.
I take no pleasure from stating the facts, quite the opposite it royally f's me off, especially today's latest choke in a long line of Bath chokes.
I've praised the team plenty of times since the restart, I even said our first half today was amazing on the previous page. People simply refuse to see it.
It's time to take stock of the season as a whole and unfortunately that includes yet another choke, and finishing in 5th (really 6th). Another trophy-less season, in a year when Sale and likely Bristol win silverware. Why can they do it but we seem incapable of amounting to anything.
Impressive stuff since the restart for sure, but as a club yet another mid-table finish.
BO - every time the team started a match slowly, you slagged them off, then as they turned it around during the game you would go back to hide under your bridge.
You have barely passed a complimentary comment in 10 weeks, and never during a match. You haven't even complimented the performance after each win.
Your ratio of posts stating how@#$%&the team and management are to how well they have played must be around 70:1.
You show no balance or relection on reality.
You have barely passed a complimentary comment in 10 weeks, and never during a match. You haven't even complimented the performance after each win.
Your ratio of posts stating how@#$%&the team and management are to how well they have played must be around 70:1.
You show no balance or relection on reality.
Take your point bo about ultimately finishing 6th, but Im looking at the past 9 games as more like a season separate from 19/20, which then puts us W7, D1, L1 with 5 WBPs. Were a better side than we were last season, and nobody thinks were the finished article. We wont take the next step until we have a better playmaker at 10, but as a supporter Im happy with the upward direction.
Quote:Id agree this this, its been a strangle season and the seconds half has certainly been beyond my expectations, lets not forget that this is still Hoopers first season in charge and we only got Hatley back after the RWC. We have been slightly unlucky with when we have played Sarries this season compared to other teams, but we have one draw and a loss against them and so far we are one all vs Exeter, did anyone believe we could beat those teams a year ago?Optimist
Take your point bo about ultimately finishing 6th, but Im looking at the past 9 games as more like a season separate from 19/20, which then puts us W7, D1, L1 with 5 WBPs. Were a better side than we were last season, and nobody thinks were the finished article. We wont take the next step until we have a better playmaker at 10, but as a supporter Im happy with the upward direction.
We may still get a semi final, but if not there is plenty to build on over the next 6 weeks before we start next season.
Personally I dont believe Bath have got it right with the coaching and recruitment departments, however Im sure Hooper supporters could build a case to prove otherwise based on results following the restart.
Either way we are probably better off finishing 5th and missing out on a hammering at Exeter. The players probably need a rest following their recent efforts
Either way we are probably better off finishing 5th and missing out on a hammering at Exeter. The players probably need a rest following their recent efforts
Some of the criticism here is so unfair.
Sarries are a proud club and wanted to end the dynasty on a high note, especially for Wrigglesworth and Barritt. Despite missing a number of players, the 22 they put out was way better than Bristol or Wasps faced. They celebrated going level as if they'd won the European Cup.
The weather turned worse and worse as the game progressed so it was going to be attritional in that second half. It was not a 'choke' - the team with the wind was always likely to be on top and win that half, and let's face it we didn't lose!
Some players looked very leg weary having put in hard yards over the last few weeks and maybe a couple could have been replaced earlier. Maybe one or two better decisions could have been made, but that's the game.
We have really moved forward as a squad and club and I for one am optimistic for next season.
Sarries are a proud club and wanted to end the dynasty on a high note, especially for Wrigglesworth and Barritt. Despite missing a number of players, the 22 they put out was way better than Bristol or Wasps faced. They celebrated going level as if they'd won the European Cup.
The weather turned worse and worse as the game progressed so it was going to be attritional in that second half. It was not a 'choke' - the team with the wind was always likely to be on top and win that half, and let's face it we didn't lose!
Some players looked very leg weary having put in hard yards over the last few weeks and maybe a couple could have been replaced earlier. Maybe one or two better decisions could have been made, but that's the game.
We have really moved forward as a squad and club and I for one am optimistic for next season.
Quote:hasta
Some thoughts:
Itoje was absolutely world class in that second half. An absolute pain in the neck all the time and pounced on stolen lineout to get their second try.
If Reid-Roko had stuck then we'd have won by miles.
The Priestland missed touch after their pen try was amateurishly awful at the worst possible time.
Way too many penalties conceded.
So annoyed. Really bad 'old Bath'. No killer instinct.
All of that plus the bounce away from underhill with line begging when similar situation near our line the ball bounced and stood up for Itoje
In last 20 it seemed we lost belief, Sarries sensed it and got the game momentum working their way
Whatever happens in the Sale game there has been enough positivity and improvement in last few months to give me hope we will be in or around top 4 next season and if we can bring in the missing link at 10 challenging seriously for home semi
No No we can't be having that. Bath are chockers. club morale is at an all time low, Hooper is@#$%&etc etc....
Quote:Dorset Boy
You haven't even complimented the performance after each win.
Wrong as ever.
Quote:Optimist
Take your point bo about ultimately finishing 6th, but Im looking at the past 9 games as more like a season separate from 19/20, which then puts us W7, D1, L1 with 5 WBPs. Were a better side than we were last season, and nobody thinks were the finished article. We wont take the next step until we have a better playmaker at 10, but as a supporter Im happy with the upward direction.
Yep, absolutely, finishing '6th', but better than we would have done before the restart, we've been great since coming back. BUT the whole choke thing today is a serious 'old Bath' flaw, rearing its ugly head yet again. This one feels even worse than the semi final against Stade a few years back.
Quote:BathIron
Despite missing a number of players, the 22 they put out was way better than Bristol or Wasps faced. They celebrated going level as if they'd won the European Cup.
They were losing players every 10 minutes, their side was getting decimated injury wise.
For all the praise our scrum gets, it struggled against the mighty Sam Crean, Robin Hislop and Alec Clarey, literal Championship players.
Quote:Long Term
No No we can't be having that. Bath are chockers. club morale is at an all time low, Hooper is@#$%&etc etc....
6th place. Failing to live up to expectation agaaaain.
Quote:ballsout
Just the 17 players Sarries lost to injury and we STILL choked. Zero surprise, this club are the biggest under-achievers the league has ever seen.
Amazing first half, stopped playing in the second half. Lost because our much-praised scrum lost out to a couple of Championship props.
Awful. We fall to pieces so easily.
Just for you Ballsout ... so you can see why some on Ere think your responses are disproportionately negative Ive highlighted the positive comment in Green You referred to and your negative comments in Red.
Quote:BeergogglesQuote:ballsout
Just the 17 players Sarries lost to injury and we STILL choked. Zero surprise, this club are the biggest under-achievers the league has ever seen.
Amazing first half, stopped playing in the second half. Lost because our much-praised scrum lost out to a couple of Championship props.
Awful. We fall to pieces so easily.
Just for you Ballsout ... so you can see why some on Ere think your responses are disproportionately negative Ive highlighted the positive comment in Green You referred to and your negative comments in Red.
We just choked our way out of the Premiership play offs against a team that was falling apart personnel wise today. We've made the top 4 once in a decade. Bristol have surpassed us in the space of two years. What would you like me to say after a disastrous result today? Say "never mind Bath, well done on playing well for 20 minutes against a typically useless Gloucester side?"
Quote:BeergogglesQuote:ballsout
Just the 17 players Sarries lost to injury and we STILL choked. Zero surprise, this club are the biggest under-achievers the league has ever seen.
Amazing first half, stopped playing in the second half. Lost because our much-praised scrum lost out to a couple of Championship props.
Awful. We fall to pieces so easily.
Just for you Ballsout ... so you can see why some on Ere
think your responses are disproportionately negative Ive highlighted the positive comment in Green You referred to and your negative comments in Red.
Just a quick question ballsout: which club do you actually SUPPORT?
PG
Quote:hasta
Piling in on Ballsout is fun, but come on guys. We absolutely blew that one.
We did. But thats not the point.
PG
For all the praise our scrum gets, it struggled against the mighty Sam Crean, Robin Hislop and Alec Clarey, literal Championship players.
I think that comes under choking rather than being found out. A couple of those arbitrary scrum penalties went against Stuart, and I think we started to hold back rather than give away penalties. A confident, street-wise side, like Sarries, knows that what goes around comes around - plus, they were playing for pride - a much less tension-inducing scenario. Yep - we choked, by stopping playing, but we still have a lot going for us.
I think that comes under choking rather than being found out. A couple of those arbitrary scrum penalties went against Stuart, and I think we started to hold back rather than give away penalties. A confident, street-wise side, like Sarries, knows that what goes around comes around - plus, they were playing for pride - a much less tension-inducing scenario. Yep - we choked, by stopping playing, but we still have a lot going for us.
You do all realise we might still be in the playoffs do you?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:hasta
Piling in on Ballsout is fun, but come on guys. We absolutely blew that one.
Hasta, I think we all recognise we blew it,, two bounces of the ball went sarries way and one missed pass. Any of those three going in Bath's favour and we'd have been third - small margins, not helped by too many stupid penalties and one awful restart.
However, the troll only ever appears when things don't go perfectly. He's a tedious drain on the forum and is rightly called out for his unbalanced negative agenda.
His wonderful Bristol scored 2 points per game more than Bath, conceded the same number, but scraped two more BPs. Again small margins, but the troll refused to acknowledge the improvements post lockdown, and takes great glee when thinks aren't going perfectly.
It terms of us being a top 4 club we choked. You can't call our half time position to the draw anything but.
That doesn't mean we didn't see progress since lockdown.
That doesn't mean we didn't see progress since lockdown.
Isn't Will Stuart the most penalised player in the league? I'm sure I read that stat a few months ago.
"You do all realise we might still be in the playoffs do you?"
Do you think it matters? We'll be very lucky to get anything out of a play off of we can't close that out. Sarries are a good team, but they weren't playing for anything other than pride.
Do you think it matters? We'll be very lucky to get anything out of a play off of we can't close that out. Sarries are a good team, but they weren't playing for anything other than pride.
Quote:shipwrecked
You do all realise we might still be in the playoffs do you?
On a technicality? Only to get smashed by Exeter or Bristol (again)? That doesn't make today's shambles any easier to deal with.
Quote:DanWiley
"You do all realise we might still be in the playoffs do you?"
Do you think it matters? We'll be very lucky to get anything out of a play off of we can't close that out. Sarries are a good team, but they weren't playing for anything other than pride.
Yes, I think it does, how is it different from if we had won? Same result. Same 3 teams to beat.
Would we have had a better chance if we had won today?
Quote:Dorset Boy
He's a tedious drain on the forum and is rightly called out for his unbalanced negative agenda.
And yet this supposed "agenda" is proved right, season after season. Constant under-performance year after year. Some of you need to open your eyes. At least we've seen some consistant performances since the restart. Hopefully the club keeps that up, but it's not an agenda when it's literally stating facts.
Quote:Dorset Boy
His wonderful Bristol scored 2 points per game more than Bath, conceded the same number, but scraped two more BPs.
And are in the play-offs, and are close to winning European silverware after a grand total of 2 seasons in the Premiership. I find it frustrating that our club was left in the dust by Exeter, and now Bristol.
Quote:the troll refused to acknowledge the improvements post lockdown, and takes great glee when thinks aren't going perfectly.
WTF? Do you take pleasure in spouting nonsense or being wrong, constantly?
Quote:ballsoutQuote:shipwrecked
You do all realise we might still be in the playoffs do you?
On a technicality? Only to get smashed by Exeter or Bristol (again)? That doesn't make today's shambles any easier to deal with.
So why would we have a better chance if we had won?
Quote:RawceQuote:All invalidated by ignoring all of the good we do (and theres been so much since lockdown) and only focussing on the negative. The best we can expect from you is a begrudging climb down, well after the fact.ballsout
Enough with this "showing glee at us losing". I couldn't be any more f-ed off after that.
We've done really well since the restart but us missing out on the play offs (for the 9th time in the last 10 seasons) just smacks of the same old chronic under-performance that terrorises this club. It's the same old story. While Sale, and probably Bristol are winning trophies this year, we win or amount to nothing, as usual.
I take no pleasure from stating the facts, quite the opposite it royally f's me off, especially today's latest choke in a long line of Bah chokes.
We have the same chance regardless, none of us know what that is, but based on today my impression of that chance is low. That's what today has shown. It hasn't changed anything, but it had shown us something about the team we have.
You want to win semi finals and finals, you close out games when you're two scores up against teams that have nothing to play for.
You want to win semi finals and finals, you close out games when you're two scores up against teams that have nothing to play for.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:ballsoutQuote:shipwrecked
You do all realise we might still be in the playoffs do you?
On a technicality? Only to get smashed by Exeter or Bristol (again)? That doesn't make today's shambles any easier to deal with.
So why would we have a better chance if we had won?
??
I'm not talking about the play-offs, obviously we're not about to win the Premiership, so it makes no difference.
My issue is with us falling apart today. A game we 100% should have won, but didn't. As usual the weight of expectation far too much for this club.
"Would we have had a better chance if we had won today?"
Yes?
Winning today would show we have the mental toughness to compete with the best. Winning today would have given the confidence that we can beat anyone. But no, we fell to pieces and the players will be emotionally spent if they magically they make the play offs by default.
Yes?
Winning today would show we have the mental toughness to compete with the best. Winning today would have given the confidence that we can beat anyone. But no, we fell to pieces and the players will be emotionally spent if they magically they make the play offs by default.
we 100% should have won - we 80% should have won, from 17-3, and we 20% should have won at kick off. We werent favourites. There was no great confidence on here that wed win. Nothing unexpected came to pass. Its disappointing, but we were within 5 minutes of massively over-achieving. Put the pistol down and just enjoy the whisky.
Quote:DanWiley
We have the same chance regardless, none of us know what that is, but based on today my impression of that chance is low. That's what today has shown. It hasn't changed anything, but it had shown us something about the team we have.
You want to win semi finals and finals, you close out games when you're two scores up against teams that have nothing to play for.
Who knows in sport? Aston Villa 7 Liverpool 2. Did anyone predict that?
What if drawing today means Bath learn their lesson? Our chances were low anyway. Sarries and Exeter have taken years to develop the self belief to win when they are down. Its highly unlikely I agree.
Quote:ballsout
"Would we have had a better chance if we had won today?"
Yes?
Winning today would show we have the mental toughness to compete with the best. Winning today would have given the confidence that we can beat anyone. But no, we fell to pieces and the players will be emotionally spent if they magically they make the play offs by default.
They didn't lose they drew, so still pretty tough I'd say. 'Emotionally spent' or 'determined to rectify' things. You and I just don't know.
The point is you said we could still qualify, and though chance or someone else's poor performance we could. But if we do it feels like a hiding to nothing as we've just shown we'll be lucky to close out those big games.
Thats the sort of thing that can be argued any old way Dan. Sale are only going to lose if large numbers of their squad are ill.
Quote:DanWiley
The point is you said we could still qualify, and though chance or someone else's poor performance we could. But if we do it feels like a hiding to nothing as we've just shown we'll be lucky to close out those big games.
Completely agree, but we knew we had little chance any way, its a bit of luck, like a bye at Wimbledon, when you come to play in the next round it doesn't matter how you got there. We are nowhere near the finished article but to close out big games you have to be in them. Exeter didn't win their finals first or second time round but they learnt how to do so. If it comes, as a club we should grab it with both hands.
Clubs, players, coaches and managers learn from results.
Quote:Optimist
We werent favourites. There was no great confidence on here that wed win.
That was before Sarries had Barrington pull out in the warm up, and about 5 more injuries/KOs of theirs throughout the match.
I think we had a good shot at a final if we could have shown we could win that sort of game, and in that one off who knows. Honestly Exeter deserve the prem this season, I dislike tall poppies, but I really can't see anyone argue they haven't been the best team this season. So, us fluking it would have left me happy, but a bit empty. I'd have taken it none the less. But to have really earnt it you need to win those games. To hope to win that semi, that's the challenge we need to show we can match. I guess, to a degree, the earlier wasps game as well.
I guess I'm more disappointed because it shows a limit to our progress than the lost opportunity this year. We've been here before in the last decade or so and we've still not turned that corner that wins those games.
Still it's a platform to build on, and we've had worse years to start from than that.
I guess I'm more disappointed because it shows a limit to our progress than the lost opportunity this year. We've been here before in the last decade or so and we've still not turned that corner that wins those games.
Still it's a platform to build on, and we've had worse years to start from than that.
Quote:sirtidychrisQuote:Bath Hammer
Amazing response from some so called supporters the moment we draw, not lose, away to Saracens. There has been a huge improvement in our standard of play, resilience & competitiveness since the season resumed. The coaching team had done a fantastic job & Hooper always speaks in an intelligent & balanced way & never avoid issues. Our attacking play still needs more speed, fluidity & cohesion but we already knew that. It doesnt seem that Jurgen Dempsey has made a significant difference so he may be a weak link in the otherwise excellent team of coaches. It would be great if we can entice that South African f/h. I certainly dont blame everything on Rhys as he has been outstanding in so many ways but we could do with another attacking option who might compliment what Spencer has brought. All in all, I expected us to finish in 5th but we came very close. Away to Exeter would no doubt be a step to far at present but lets hope for further improvement next season so we an put in a real challenge.
Agreed
Ditto.
It's so easy to pick out errors but in those conditions there will always be errors. I'd rather step back and reflect on the fact that since the restart we have only lost one game and that was a close run thing. I have seen so much progress in the last few months that I am filled with optimism. Yes it'd have been great if the ball had gone to Roko or Underhill hadn't knocked on and we'd seen it out...but drawing away against Sarries who were typically annoyingly belligerent and determined not to go out with a whimper is not a catastrophe or a sign of a bad team. We are a good team - and that's not something we've been able to say for a while. None of us thought at the start f this season we'd be in the mix and that is a sign of immense progress. I am looking forward to the new season. if we maintain our post-restart form then we will be top four next year and in with a shout of winning trophies. Onwards.
All the bookies had us as underdogs because of our record in Hendon. We didnt lose and we didnt win but we competed against a team fired up on their last day in the premiership. Emotions were high. We are not and will not be a finished product for some time, but there are encouraging signs and the future is bright. Continuous negativity has no place for a young side who need our encouragement, apart from it being very boring and a turn off to many posters.
Interesting that Sarries were celebrating like theyd won at the end. Was that because they felt like theyd snatched a draw against all odds, or because it gave them a lot of pleasure to p!$$ on our particular firework?
Quote:ballsout
We always stop playing when we think the game is won, always. Idiotic.
Fingers crossed the Sale game is called off, otherwise we'll be 5th, which allowing for Sarries' docked points, would actually be 6th. Same old, same old.
Even without their points deduction wed still be above Sarries in the table
Referring to us as 6th again/mid table etc ignores the fact that we've won 14 games and lost just 7- much better than recent seasons past. We've also done so after a pretty mediocre first half to the season so regardless of whether we make it to the play offs we're heading in the right direction. As everyone else notes, we need to get the backs looking more fluent and cohesive and be willing to offload more, but if it wasn't for bloody Covid I'd be excited about the 'new' season, albeit we've had our share of false new dawns!
Quote:BathHalfFull
It's so easy to pick out errors but in those conditions there will always be errors. I'd rather step back and reflect on the fact that since the restart we have only lost one game and that was a close run thing. I have seen so much progress in the last few months that I am filled with optimism. Yes it'd have been great if the ball had gone to Roko or Underhill hadn't knocked on and we'd seen it out...but drawing away against Sarries who were typically annoyingly belligerent and determined not to go out with a whimper is not a catastrophe or a sign of a bad team. We are a good team - and that's not something we've been able to say for a while. None of us thought at the start f this season we'd be in the mix and that is a sign of immense progress. I am looking forward to the new season. if we maintain our post-restart form then we will be top four next year and in with a shout of winning trophies. Onwards.
You can also take that slightly disappointing draw after leading by 14 points with the recovery against Gloucester. We left that late & in all honesty were rather fortunate to win with a bonus point. Pretty well all our rivals wins have been emphatic. Overall, therefore, I think the 4 teams that will probably qualify deserve to be there. We have to make more progress.
We get a draw at AP, where we've never won, against a Sarries side featuring 4 Lions and a World Cup winner playing their last game at home for who knows how long and farewelling Brad Barritt and Richard Wigglesworth, having played the second half into the teeth of a mounting gale and we're disappointed?
Then we've come a long way this season. And there's still much to play for. Sale lacking 19 of their 34 man first team squad are unlikely to dominate Wuss, even if the game goes ahead. Mind you Exeter at SP is something of a tall order...
My MoTM - Ruaridh. A real fighter and taking him off with the game in the balance was a poor decision IMHO
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:05:02:29:45 by joethefanatic.
Then we've come a long way this season. And there's still much to play for. Sale lacking 19 of their 34 man first team squad are unlikely to dominate Wuss, even if the game goes ahead. Mind you Exeter at SP is something of a tall order...
My MoTM - Ruaridh. A real fighter and taking him off with the game in the balance was a poor decision IMHO
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:05:02:29:45 by joethefanatic.
Very proud of the whole squad for their performances since the restart, well done lads.
Assuming that's us done for the year, very much looking forward to next season aside from the elephant in the room of course.
[www.skysports.com]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Assuming that's us done for the year, very much looking forward to next season aside from the elephant in the room of course.
[www.skysports.com]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Personally thought that was a poor performance and it showed that we haven't played in a real pressure cooker game for about 5 years! I think the coaches have done a good job but do engender a broadly negative , limited and conservative approach and that shone through. One selection i think that is shown in is matavesi over redpath- i think cr gives us a much more rounded game and greater threat.
We had to go for the jugular first half when on top, playing with the conditions and with sarries appearing very flat. We also knocked out about half their team to add to the handful of players they lost over the last week so they were in slight disarray.
Particular infuriating brain farts were watson not countering when him and i think it was rmc had loads of space and a 2 on 1, he instead kicked it out on the full by about 5 yards (esp frustrating as his running game has been excellent in recent weeks). Also rhys compounding problems by restart out on the full.
Easy to blame boyce but he has improved alot this season and if you are struggling at scrum against a particular opponent its the whole teams responsbility to try to resolve that but its v v difficult.
Have to credit sarries, lots you can question about that club but character in adversity and ability to get results is amazing. I hope sale put us out of our misery on weds. We deserve 5th and exeter away would prob do more harm than good. Our big hope was to finish 3rd and have a winnable semi and exeter focus on europe-still a long shot!
Positive restart on the whole with lots to build on but we need to find a game that doesnt always rely on complete foward dominance as you are not always going to get it.
We had to go for the jugular first half when on top, playing with the conditions and with sarries appearing very flat. We also knocked out about half their team to add to the handful of players they lost over the last week so they were in slight disarray.
Particular infuriating brain farts were watson not countering when him and i think it was rmc had loads of space and a 2 on 1, he instead kicked it out on the full by about 5 yards (esp frustrating as his running game has been excellent in recent weeks). Also rhys compounding problems by restart out on the full.
Easy to blame boyce but he has improved alot this season and if you are struggling at scrum against a particular opponent its the whole teams responsbility to try to resolve that but its v v difficult.
Have to credit sarries, lots you can question about that club but character in adversity and ability to get results is amazing. I hope sale put us out of our misery on weds. We deserve 5th and exeter away would prob do more harm than good. Our big hope was to finish 3rd and have a winnable semi and exeter focus on europe-still a long shot!
Positive restart on the whole with lots to build on but we need to find a game that doesnt always rely on complete foward dominance as you are not always going to get it.
I had to go out after the first half and then the recording didnt work, tried to find it on line but saw the score, I hate that!
Personally Ive been in the Ballsout camp for the last three years - could see no direction of travel whatsoever, but have now diverged, I'm happy with the last half of the season and optimistic about next year. It's been fun to watch Bath (admittedly I missed 2nd half). Hooper and his predecessors have always said 'we will learn from the loss'. When the team is going nowhere that doesn't work, but after the post lockdown season and the momentum developed I think they will take a lot from yesterday.
Personally Ive been in the Ballsout camp for the last three years - could see no direction of travel whatsoever, but have now diverged, I'm happy with the last half of the season and optimistic about next year. It's been fun to watch Bath (admittedly I missed 2nd half). Hooper and his predecessors have always said 'we will learn from the loss'. When the team is going nowhere that doesn't work, but after the post lockdown season and the momentum developed I think they will take a lot from yesterday.
The Bath at the end of the season is very different to the one at the start. We do look like we have a plan and a direction. We have lost 1game only since the lockdown.
Yes we were found out when we couldnt dominate in the 2nd half yesterday. The penalty try is the most worrying part as that was close to our 1st choice pack which had been strong all year. I think there will be some head scratching over that.
Next season we will see if this is a false dawn or whether we have truely started to build a new environment, ethos and ability to win.
This year, even not perfect, has shown a marked improvement over the previous 4 years.
Yes we were found out when we couldnt dominate in the 2nd half yesterday. The penalty try is the most worrying part as that was close to our 1st choice pack which had been strong all year. I think there will be some head scratching over that.
Next season we will see if this is a false dawn or whether we have truely started to build a new environment, ethos and ability to win.
This year, even not perfect, has shown a marked improvement over the previous 4 years.
Well said Woodpecker, sincerely hope they do. I have been one of Hoopers biggest critics but his team of coaches have certainly improved things, but we still have a long way to go. The backs are not playing well as a unit and sometimes don't seem to know what each other is going to do, eg Rokos over running for a pass, Watson kicking, probably under orders.
After previous years and the start to this season, I will (reluctantly) take a 5th place. We have to face it, we are not as good as Exeter, Bristol, Wasps or Sale. But I take comfort in the fact that Rome was not built in a day, and it will take time for this relatively young, with new players this season, team to come good. Stuart, Boyce, Will Spencer, McInally, Redpath, Matevesi, De Glanville and the super Spencer all are new, and have contributed mightily. With a fit again Cokasigna and Faletau plus the others, I am beginning to believe we can and will get better.
My alternative star of the season is McConachie. Always up for the challenge, showing real pace and very good chasing. Should not have cone off on Sunday, Roko should have been subbed and McC gone to the right wing. But there what do I know?
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
After previous years and the start to this season, I will (reluctantly) take a 5th place. We have to face it, we are not as good as Exeter, Bristol, Wasps or Sale. But I take comfort in the fact that Rome was not built in a day, and it will take time for this relatively young, with new players this season, team to come good. Stuart, Boyce, Will Spencer, McInally, Redpath, Matevesi, De Glanville and the super Spencer all are new, and have contributed mightily. With a fit again Cokasigna and Faletau plus the others, I am beginning to believe we can and will get better.
My alternative star of the season is McConachie. Always up for the challenge, showing real pace and very good chasing. Should not have cone off on Sunday, Roko should have been subbed and McC gone to the right wing. But there what do I know?
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
There is another issue arising from the fixture list. Would Wasps have thrashed a full Exeter side with a focus on keeping a winning run?
An idea worth considering is that the top 6 this season play the bottom 6 [either all at home or all away]
But guess the TV companies won't like it as it will avoid the kind of match up we had and the potential the Wasps v Exeter game had when first published
An idea worth considering is that the top 6 this season play the bottom 6 [either all at home or all away]
But guess the TV companies won't like it as it will avoid the kind of match up we had and the potential the Wasps v Exeter game had when first published
After time to calm down and reflect - this may be a blessing. What yesterday showed to us, more importantly the players and management that we have a long way to go in regards to our goal of being winners and champions.
Full credit to Saracens the belief and trust instilled in that squad by Mark McCall and his team is admirable. Every player in that squad believes and buys into the understanding of what it takes to be winners.
We have come on so much but yesterday showed once again our fragility around situations like this. We have the foundations set now we need to build.
What concerns me more is once again yesterday it was our seasoned Internationals seemed to panic and make mistakes at crucial times - RP kicking the ball directly into touch from kick off having just conceded a penalty try. Anthony Watson fielding a kick in open field with Roko alongside and space to burn and only 2 defenders in front of him and he kicks directly into touch. Error compounded by error.
I thought Ben Spencer was good but towards the end when the camera focused on him you could see the anguish on his face as time ticked away.
We are not dead and buried yet Phil Winstanley will try to ensure Sale go through but the virus thankfully does not answer to PRL.
Full credit to Saracens the belief and trust instilled in that squad by Mark McCall and his team is admirable. Every player in that squad believes and buys into the understanding of what it takes to be winners.
We have come on so much but yesterday showed once again our fragility around situations like this. We have the foundations set now we need to build.
What concerns me more is once again yesterday it was our seasoned Internationals seemed to panic and make mistakes at crucial times - RP kicking the ball directly into touch from kick off having just conceded a penalty try. Anthony Watson fielding a kick in open field with Roko alongside and space to burn and only 2 defenders in front of him and he kicks directly into touch. Error compounded by error.
I thought Ben Spencer was good but towards the end when the camera focused on him you could see the anguish on his face as time ticked away.
We are not dead and buried yet Phil Winstanley will try to ensure Sale go through but the virus thankfully does not answer to PRL.
Quote:Ali1969
What concerns me more is once again yesterday it was our seasoned Internationals seemed to panic and make mistakes at crucial times - RP kicking the ball directly into touch from kick off having just conceded a penalty try. Anthony Watson fielding a kick in open field with Roko alongside and space to burn and only 2 defenders in front of him and he kicks directly into touch. Error compounded by error.
I thought Ben Spencer was good but towards the end when the camera focused on him you could see the anguish on his face as time ticked away.
Agee about RP and AW, but I suspect the adrenaline was pumping and that was why they both kicked long. Having said that they sold have the experience to compensate.
I think Ben Spencer struggles to do the full 80, I've seen him struggle after exertion in the second half on a number of occasions. Not criticism, just an observation. I doubt he had to play 80 mins week after week at Sarries.
"Hooper always speaks in an intelligent & balanced way & never avoid issues."
what? I can barely understand a thing the man says. he talks managerspeak which he no doubt learned at the knee of the master, Tarquin McDonald. Hooper is an empty shell, a schmoozer who was recruited in the most outrageous fashion for political reasons- to keep any trouble from the rugby dept away from Mcdonald's office door.
it is no accident that bath's renaissance has happened since hatley took over the running of the team. prior to that- under hooper's so-called coaching leadership- we were the same old crappy team.
don't take my word for it. Sam Underhill said as much in the national press over the weekend.
what? I can barely understand a thing the man says. he talks managerspeak which he no doubt learned at the knee of the master, Tarquin McDonald. Hooper is an empty shell, a schmoozer who was recruited in the most outrageous fashion for political reasons- to keep any trouble from the rugby dept away from Mcdonald's office door.
it is no accident that bath's renaissance has happened since hatley took over the running of the team. prior to that- under hooper's so-called coaching leadership- we were the same old crappy team.
don't take my word for it. Sam Underhill said as much in the national press over the weekend.
Praise for Neal Hatley from Sam Underhill isn't criticism of Hooper.
So what are you saying, Hooper is a failure because we drew at Saracen's?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
So what are you saying, Hooper is a failure because we drew at Saracen's?
Hi, Bris fan here in peace (and pieces at various times). I had your match on laptop and ours on the TV and, for what it's worth, to me (and everyone I'm sure) Bath looked very impressive in the first half. They won every collision and won them significantly (and no one does that against Sarries). There also seemed to be more willingness to use the backs than of late - and why not with the backs you have. So with the Sarries bench being what it was, at half-time the only question I had was would you get 4 tries - and I was pretty sure you would. What happened then has IMHO to be a situation where, whatever was said at half-time, the energy/mind-set of especially the forwards went and suddenly the tackles weren't as ferocious and the charges weren't as powerful and the collisions became more 50/50; despite the fact that the Sarries players should have felt more tired than the Bath players at the start of the 2nd half. I can't think that is a fitness thing so it must have been a mental relaxation (suddenly not feeling like the underdog and half an eye thinking about the 4 tries) - and once momentum is lost it is hard to get it back and then suddenly at the end there was panic and worry and that led to poor decisions and execution and the draw.
BUT I genuinely think you could beat Exe if you get to play them in a semi on Saturday. It will need Exe to be slightly off (one eye on Racing) but all the other Prem teams need them to be slightly off to beat them. But if you get over 7 points in the lead then you will need to keep playing as if 2 points behind!
No time to fix it for Saturday but what Bath still need IMO is for more (if not all) of the forwards to have a better passing skill-set and nous about when to pass etc. If Bath have a 2 on 1 and the Bath player with the ball is a forward then, other than Faletau I'm always expecting a poor or poorly timed pass to ruin the opportunity. You could also of course do without losing most of your best players for 11 of the first 14 Prem games of next season! But I'd say it's a time to be glass half full for Bath fans
BUT I genuinely think you could beat Exe if you get to play them in a semi on Saturday. It will need Exe to be slightly off (one eye on Racing) but all the other Prem teams need them to be slightly off to beat them. But if you get over 7 points in the lead then you will need to keep playing as if 2 points behind!
No time to fix it for Saturday but what Bath still need IMO is for more (if not all) of the forwards to have a better passing skill-set and nous about when to pass etc. If Bath have a 2 on 1 and the Bath player with the ball is a forward then, other than Faletau I'm always expecting a poor or poorly timed pass to ruin the opportunity. You could also of course do without losing most of your best players for 11 of the first 14 Prem games of next season! But I'd say it's a time to be glass half full for Bath fans
Hooper has directed recruitment for the past 2+ seasons. If you can find anyone else responsible for that, and/or criticism of it, be my guest.
Quote:Rich.
BUT I genuinely think you could beat Exe if you get to play them in a semi on Saturday. It will need Exe to be slightly off (one eye on Racing) but all the other Prem teams need them to be slightly off to beat them. But if you get over 7 points in the lead then you will need to keep playing as if 2 points behind!
Thanks for that, we don't know if we will get a game next weekend but I agree Exeter are beatable, you only want a head high tackle in the heat of the battle leading to a red to change the game.
Anything can happen in sport!
You don't always have to buy new players! You can train the existing ones to get better. Going back to the match where we beat you in our first game after we came back up it was, in part, poor passing and catching skills by Louw and Attwood that allowed us to win that game. Dave Attwood's skillset in that regard has improved significantly since he joined us. Ben Earl has spoken about how much more he is doing ball skills training with Bristol compared to Saracens and it is already showing.
I don't know the ins and outs of Bristol's training method but I do know that Pat gives a lot of attention to to the ball handling skill set of the forwards. You might remember a few years ago Sam Warburton was saying that in training for Cardiff and Wales, up to that point he never spent time on any ball handling skills at all! - and it showed. Bath's pack has improved a lot over the last 12-months it seems and I suspect all the focus has been on the beefier side of the role - so maybe they might now feel they can develop a more around skill set.
I don't know the ins and outs of Bristol's training method but I do know that Pat gives a lot of attention to to the ball handling skill set of the forwards. You might remember a few years ago Sam Warburton was saying that in training for Cardiff and Wales, up to that point he never spent time on any ball handling skills at all! - and it showed. Bath's pack has improved a lot over the last 12-months it seems and I suspect all the focus has been on the beefier side of the role - so maybe they might now feel they can develop a more around skill set.
If and big if we get through I think Exeter will rue resting their stars.
Whilst I think everyone understands the reasoning behind it, two thumping defeats can disrupt momentum. With no crowd at Sandy Park Yes Exeter are beatable and without sounding too biased I thinn as a squad we are better suited to do it.
Sale, if Diamond and his old front row partner Winstanley get their way and Sale go through then what kind of squad are they going to send to Sandy Park? They are already the smallest of the squads in the Premiership and have yet to admit which players are positive - given the size of the squad means it must be some of their stars must be affected + MT out through injury. Add to that playing Weds and Saturday will mean only one result.
Whilst I think everyone understands the reasoning behind it, two thumping defeats can disrupt momentum. With no crowd at Sandy Park Yes Exeter are beatable and without sounding too biased I thinn as a squad we are better suited to do it.
Sale, if Diamond and his old front row partner Winstanley get their way and Sale go through then what kind of squad are they going to send to Sandy Park? They are already the smallest of the squads in the Premiership and have yet to admit which players are positive - given the size of the squad means it must be some of their stars must be affected + MT out through injury. Add to that playing Weds and Saturday will mean only one result.
Sorry Rich, my post was in response to bardofavon, not you. I agree with most of your points, although I also think there's more than one way to win a rugby game. We can and should upskill our forwards, but don't have to play a full Bris offloading spectacular to win. We should be layering it onto the improvements in our set piece and defence that we've seen this season.
What I do think Hoops has put in place is that good, continuous improvement - and we're not in a situation to be good one season, rubbish the next *cough*Saints*cough*Glaws*cough*. In general our attacking patterns and plans are being developed veeerrrrryyyy slowly. I think we're mostly patient with that given the improvements elsewhere, but I suspect that patience will not last to the end of next season if we don't continue to develop.
What I do think Hoops has put in place is that good, continuous improvement - and we're not in a situation to be good one season, rubbish the next *cough*Saints*cough*Glaws*cough*. In general our attacking patterns and plans are being developed veeerrrrryyyy slowly. I think we're mostly patient with that given the improvements elsewhere, but I suspect that patience will not last to the end of next season if we don't continue to develop.
Ah right, cheers hasta. Agree with you that there's more than one way to win a rugby game. I'm not suggesting Bath try to play like we do but whatever style you play with there will often be key moments in key games (especially the bigger ones) when victory or defeat will be determined by the ball-handling skill-set of a forward &/or their ability to see when they should pass or whether (in support of a team mate with the ball) they should run straight or change their angle or etc etc. I'm sure Hooper and his team know that of course and it is a 'work on'
Call me an old cynic but since Exeter finished top after 22 games I regard them as unofficial champions anyway. Of course I would love Bath to win the official title but just thought I would throw in an old fashioned view amongst all the COVID manouverings.
If we assume Sale take the last spot, who would we prefer to win the title? I know this could feel like voting for Trump but I would prefer the title to be in the West country somewhere.
If we assume Sale take the last spot, who would we prefer to win the title? I know this could feel like voting for Trump but I would prefer the title to be in the West country somewhere.
Quote:9215Quote:ballsout
We always stop playing when we think the game is won, always. Idiotic.
Fingers crossed the Sale game is called off, otherwise we'll be 5th, which allowing for Sarries' docked points, would actually be 6th. Same old, same old.
Even without their points deduction wed still be above Sarries in the table
That's right. Without Saracens being docked the 105 points they would have tied with Bath on 67, with Bath's 14 wins taking them (just) into fifth place.
So a real improvement following the last few years finishing in sixth.
Last season we sneaked into 6th but were actually on the same points as 4th, this season it looks like we will narrowly miss 4th. But for me the position in the table isn't as relevant a measure of improvement as comparing the 14 vs 10 wins and 67 vs 56 points.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Exactly Bath Matt and a top of the head impression is that we have scored more tbp's since league restarted compared to same matches last year
here are the match stats:
[www.espn.co.uk]
pretty close in most respects excepts for penalties conceded. Charlie says on the bath rugby site that the reason we lost was the set piece but that is not the story the stats tell.
[www.espn.co.uk]
pretty close in most respects excepts for penalties conceded. Charlie says on the bath rugby site that the reason we lost was the set piece but that is not the story the stats tell.
Have finally got over the disappointment of the last 20 minutes and decided to check this thread out ..... it was always going to be a painful read.
Two things above all worry me about the last 20 mins:
1. We don't have a dominant attacking voice in the backs. Whilst RP should be praised for his game management and kicking; other sides have a personality at 10 or 12 who recognises that you have to attack to resist pressure in a game. We have a worrying tendency to go into our shells and hunker down worried about making mistakes. This only encourages other sides and creates a nasty negative loop.
2. Our scrum looked weak against a less than full strength Saracens front row and I wonder if this a need for different technique on hybrid pitches or a need to still bolster this area (or both).
Two things above all worry me about the last 20 mins:
1. We don't have a dominant attacking voice in the backs. Whilst RP should be praised for his game management and kicking; other sides have a personality at 10 or 12 who recognises that you have to attack to resist pressure in a game. We have a worrying tendency to go into our shells and hunker down worried about making mistakes. This only encourages other sides and creates a nasty negative loop.
2. Our scrum looked weak against a less than full strength Saracens front row and I wonder if this a need for different technique on hybrid pitches or a need to still bolster this area (or both).
An awful lot of the pens conceded were at set piece though - scrum (Stuart especially), lineout (a couple of stupid playing the man in the air), maul (a number of in the sides). So he's not really wrong.
A couple of bad straight into touches from Rhys and Ant conceded a lot of territory as well.
A couple of bad straight into touches from Rhys and Ant conceded a lot of territory as well.
Quote:Never In Doubt
We don't have a dominant attacking voice in the backs. Whilst RP should be praised for his game management and kicking; other sides have a personality at 10 or 12 who recognises that you have to attack to resist pressure in a game
Absolutely this NID - and I really like the phrase 'attack to resist'. Just a great, concise summary of our issues.
I get so irritated with people who claim to prefer 5th over 4th because we'll get stuffed by Exeter anyway:
1. If you don't play those games, you'll never win them. Losing needs to be a learning experience.
2. It's a sport FFS! Anything might happen. OK the odds are against but you never know. Who would have predicted Liverpool losing 7-2!!
If you look back at the Prem season, I think there are remarkably few games where you could say ' we should've won' and rather more where 'we could've lost'. We lost 7 games: 2 to Wasps, 2 to Bris, 1 to Sarries, 1 to Exeter, 1 to Glaws. To put it another way, of the 14 games we played against (currently) 5th through 11th, we Won 13 & lost 1, remarkably consistent.
Before the restart, we were already showing signs of improvement. Since, of course, a lot more. Obviously not the finished article yet, but definitely going in the right direction.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
1. If you don't play those games, you'll never win them. Losing needs to be a learning experience.
2. It's a sport FFS! Anything might happen. OK the odds are against but you never know. Who would have predicted Liverpool losing 7-2!!
If you look back at the Prem season, I think there are remarkably few games where you could say ' we should've won' and rather more where 'we could've lost'. We lost 7 games: 2 to Wasps, 2 to Bris, 1 to Sarries, 1 to Exeter, 1 to Glaws. To put it another way, of the 14 games we played against (currently) 5th through 11th, we Won 13 & lost 1, remarkably consistent.
Before the restart, we were already showing signs of improvement. Since, of course, a lot more. Obviously not the finished article yet, but definitely going in the right direction.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
I have always been surprised that teams can choose to play on a plastic pitches, it is like playing tennis on a shale, carpet or grass courts, all completely separate surfaces requiring different skills and methods of playing, so if you are not used to it there is a big home advantage and I expect that was especially true on Sunday in all that wind and rain.
Given the number of 3G pitches its pretty much part of the game from a Premiership point of view.
I know what you're saying Jay, but for point 1 that was literally it. We had a slightly lower pressure version of such a game and we blew it.
I don't feel we deserve to be in the top 4 to be honest. Without Sale's covid issues they have pummelled Wuss and our draw would have put us out. We'll be the ones who benefit from this debacle (not Sale) if it happens Sale can't play.
I know what you're saying Jay, but for point 1 that was literally it. We had a slightly lower pressure version of such a game and we blew it.
I don't feel we deserve to be in the top 4 to be honest. Without Sale's covid issues they have pummelled Wuss and our draw would have put us out. We'll be the ones who benefit from this debacle (not Sale) if it happens Sale can't play.
Quote:shipwrecked
Praise for Neal Hatley from Sam Underhill isn't criticism of Hooper.
So what are you saying, Hooper is a failure because we drew at Saracen's?
how do you work that out? I am saying that bath's improvement this season started when hatley took over as head coach which coincides with our successful period post lockdown. Underhill said that under hatley training has been much better and very similar to england's- which is what you would expect given that hatley has been learning from Eddie.
I would also say our improvement is the result of some shrewd recruitment in the s and c dept where we managed to get our hands on PJ Wilson, the much-respected fitness coach from munster, and Bryan Field who ran medical services at the brumbies. since then our squad has looked much fitter and less prone to injury.
we have also made better than average player recruitment and it is clear to me that hatley has been instrumental in this. as he has been going around the grounds checking on potential england players it is common sense that he has had another notebook in his pocket with 'Bath Rugby' written on the cover. Stuart, Boyce and Judge will all have been Hatley's picks.
Hooper got his job in the most disgraceful fashion. the job was never advertised- and based on hooper's CV, or lack of one, he should never have been within a country mile of a DOR job. he has never done any coaching courses or secured any sports management qualifications. indeed I cant find any mention of any formal post-18 education at all for him.
I never found one fan that I talked to about this last year- either on the terraces or in the pubs that thought differently about hooper's grooming for the top job. it was apparent the moment McDonald took him to NZ to finalise the ill-considered recruitment of Todd Blackadder. thereafter hooper was gifted any number job titles- they seemed to change weekly- but never apparently succeeded in any of them. how many games did he win as coach of the A team? or of the academy? I can't remember any.
his appointment was purely political. given that it is hatley who prepares the side, chooses the tactics and picks the team I fail to understand how hooper can stand there on match days, in front of BT's cameras, preening himself as if he is solely responsible for the wins. meanwhile hatley is nowhere to be seen!
David Humphreys, the former DOR at Glaws was much classier. He was there on match days sitting at the back of the coaching box, but he kept his head down and his mouth shut and left the media business to Ackermann.
Quote:DanWiley
I know what you're saying Jay, but for point 1 that was literally it. We had a slightly lower pressure version of such a game and we blew it.
Sure we blew it, but despite that, if you look at the season as a whole, I think we're getting better at not blowing it!
In the wind and wet, players will make mistakes whether that be kicking long or dropping a pass. For me the disappoint things were the bad tactic of sitting on a lead and the way our scrum started going backwards in the 2nd half. Still some leadership work to do.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
"I get so irritated with people who claim to prefer 5th over 4th because we'll get stuffed by Exeter anyway"
Does anyone prefer 5th, as such? What (I think) people would prefer, is for us to have beaten Sarries. The fact of beating Sarries away would have allowed us to think that we had progressed sufficiently to challenge Exeter. The fact of losing means we're not.
I don't especially want to get 4th place by default, if Sale either lose the game or have to concede it due to CV. Then again, we did recently stuff Sale away from home in a match which had a lot riding on it, so was a pretty good test of our mental strength and top 4 credentials.
One would hope that we'd have learned something useful in the defeat to Sarries - primarily: don't attempt to close a game out from the 40th minute.
Does anyone prefer 5th, as such? What (I think) people would prefer, is for us to have beaten Sarries. The fact of beating Sarries away would have allowed us to think that we had progressed sufficiently to challenge Exeter. The fact of losing means we're not.
I don't especially want to get 4th place by default, if Sale either lose the game or have to concede it due to CV. Then again, we did recently stuff Sale away from home in a match which had a lot riding on it, so was a pretty good test of our mental strength and top 4 credentials.
One would hope that we'd have learned something useful in the defeat to Sarries - primarily: don't attempt to close a game out from the 40th minute.
Its not the draw at Sarries that will be a regret when they look back as much as the loss to Wasps, at home, when they had no hookers.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Certainly over the season if we don't get top four, it'll be the home losses to Bris, Wasps and Sarries that cost us, not the away draw. But, with 10 mins left and being 7 points up, it's still flippin' annoying.
Goodness there are some doom and gloom merchants on here! Are Bristol, Sale and Wasps so much better than us? I guess they got more bonus points than us but we've just as many games as them and the most wins we have had for a number of seasons.
Chill down and recognise the progress but also accept we have some still to make.
Chill down and recognise the progress but also accept we have some still to make.
Quote:nick holder
Goodness there are some doom and gloom merchants on here! Are Bristol, Sale and Wasps so much better than us?
Pre-lockdown yes, they were. Post re-start, all are pretty close I would say. Exception obviously Bristol because of their multiple signings and loans. A bit hard to point to the post-lockdown table for that because of the squad rotations but I think that Bath could pretty much give anyone a game at the moment. Think they would lose 4 out of 5 vs an on song Exe though. ..lets hope if they get through its the 1 of 5 Exe they face.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Sale and wasps were both gifted victories at Sarries when they fielded an awful side to focus on Champions Cup. Wasps were then gifted a bonus point by Chiefs. If Sarries had beaten Racing we would have had a gift, this season has been on a knife edge on so many fronts.
I personally think we deserved 3rd, based on post lockdown performances, and the gifts other teams were granted above. But for this season I am enormously happy just to see progress. Next season will not be the same, though, and we will have to perform. We were beating Sarries, a weakened team potentially, but one who really cared due to Wiggy and Barritt.
A good season, not a great one, but we have a pack that I love and trust and we have plans afoot to fix the missing link - 10. Everything we are bemoaning is visibly in the process of being remediated, that to me is quite exciting!
I personally think we deserved 3rd, based on post lockdown performances, and the gifts other teams were granted above. But for this season I am enormously happy just to see progress. Next season will not be the same, though, and we will have to perform. We were beating Sarries, a weakened team potentially, but one who really cared due to Wiggy and Barritt.
A good season, not a great one, but we have a pack that I love and trust and we have plans afoot to fix the missing link - 10. Everything we are bemoaning is visibly in the process of being remediated, that to me is quite exciting!
Thought we were lucky to get a draw tbh.
After 20 minutes our attack just didnt look capable. Our ball skills are p1ss poor for a club aiming for the playoffs and thats undeniable Im afraid..
Late on Watson start to join in on the attacks and hit the line around the centres. What a difference. Should have been doing it through the game. RP couldve dropped back to cover.
I thought Faletau and Billy Vunipola were in a competition for who could mentioned least in commentary.
Jonathan Joseph utterly starved of good ball once again.
It doesnt matter the name of the club or the names on the shirts of the opposition, you play against the form you are facing and Sarries were ragged enough to put far more points on them making their inevitable good spell (more because we let everyone have a go at some point) irrelevant.
Think finishing 5th would be better for morale than losing by a record score to Exeter.
The club is improving, thats important. Better so far than under Blackadder. The problems are obvious. Were not quite good enough at the old Exeter thing to only win games with around the corner drive and our inability to manipulate any space out wide or through the middle is almost comical. That will need to change.
Looking forward to what improvements are made next year.
I probably don't know what i'm talking about.
After 20 minutes our attack just didnt look capable. Our ball skills are p1ss poor for a club aiming for the playoffs and thats undeniable Im afraid..
Late on Watson start to join in on the attacks and hit the line around the centres. What a difference. Should have been doing it through the game. RP couldve dropped back to cover.
I thought Faletau and Billy Vunipola were in a competition for who could mentioned least in commentary.
Jonathan Joseph utterly starved of good ball once again.
It doesnt matter the name of the club or the names on the shirts of the opposition, you play against the form you are facing and Sarries were ragged enough to put far more points on them making their inevitable good spell (more because we let everyone have a go at some point) irrelevant.
Think finishing 5th would be better for morale than losing by a record score to Exeter.
The club is improving, thats important. Better so far than under Blackadder. The problems are obvious. Were not quite good enough at the old Exeter thing to only win games with around the corner drive and our inability to manipulate any space out wide or through the middle is almost comical. That will need to change.
Looking forward to what improvements are made next year.
I probably don't know what i'm talking about.
Quote:Think we'll have to beg to differ, but none of my mates share this damning view of Hooper. Most are waiting to see how things go. The criticism of his coaching-he's not a coach. Perhaps as DOR it's felt that he should deal with the media. Maybe Hatley prefers it that way as I can't recall him being in front of the cameras in previous coaching roles. Given how often Hooper would have been interviewed after poor performances and defeats I can't see how it's motivated by a need to be smug and claim unmerited credit. As DOR maybe SH deserves some credit for getting the right people in the right jobs. Finally, maybe Bruce Craig-who presumably knows a bit about recruitment--felt it better to promote from within having seen something in SH he liked other than his being a yes man. Perhaps your interpretation is closer to the truth than mine, but we don't know-things don't have to be the way you see them...bardofavonQuote:shipwrecked
Praise for Neal Hatley from Sam Underhill isn't criticism of Hooper.
So what are you saying, Hooper is a failure because we drew at Saracen's?
how do you work that out? I am saying that bath's improvement this season started when hatley took over as head coach which coincides with our successful period post lockdown. Underhill said that under hatley training has been much better and very similar to england's- which is what you would expect given that hatley has been
learning from Eddie.
I would also say our improvement is the result of some shrewd recruitment in the s and c dept where we managed to get our hands on PJ Wilson, the much-respected fitness coach from munster, and Bryan Field who ran medical services at the brumbies. since then our squad has looked much fitter and less prone to injury.
we have also made better than average player recruitment and it is clear to me that hatley has been instrumental in this. as he has been going around the grounds checking on potential england players it is common sense that he has had another notebook in his pocket with 'Bath Rugby' written on the cover. Stuart, Boyce and Judge will all have been Hatley's picks.
Hooper got his job in the most disgraceful fashion. the job was never advertised- and based on hooper's CV, or lack of one, he should never have been within a country mile of a DOR job. he has never done any coaching courses or secured any sports management qualifications. indeed I cant find any mention of any formal post-18 education at all for him.
I never found one fan that I talked to about this last year- either on the terraces or in the pubs that thought differently about hooper's grooming for the top job. it was apparent the moment McDonald took him to NZ to finalise the ill-considered recruitment of Todd Blackadder. thereafter hooper was gifted any number job titles- they seemed to change weekly- but never apparently succeeded in any of them. how many games did he win as coach of the A team? or of the academy? I can't remember any.
his appointment was purely political. given that it is hatley who prepares the side, chooses the tactics and picks the team I fail to understand how hooper can stand there on match days, in front of BT's cameras, preening himself as if he is solely responsible for the wins. meanwhile hatley is nowhere to be seen!
David Humphreys, the former DOR at Glaws was much classier. He was there on match days sitting at the back of the coaching box, but he kept his head down and his mouth shut and left the media business to Ackermann.
Quote:TomReaganQuote:Think we'll have to beg to differ, but none of my mates share this damning view of Hooper. Most are waiting to see how things go. The criticism of his coaching-he's not a coach. Perhaps as DOR it's felt that he should deal with the media. Maybe Hatley prefers it that way as I can't recall him being in front of the cameras in previous coaching roles. Given how often Hooper would have been interviewed after poor performances and defeats I can't see how it's motivated by a need to be smug and claim unmerited credit. As DOR maybe SH deserves some credit for getting the right people in the right jobs. Finally, maybe Bruce Craig-who presumably knows a bit about recruitment--felt it better to promote from within having seen something in SH he liked other than his being a yes man. Perhaps your interpretation is closer to the truth than mine, but we don't know-things don't have to be the way you see them...bardofavonQuote:shipwrecked
Praise for Neal Hatley from Sam Underhill isn't criticism of Hooper.
So what are you saying, Hooper is a failure because we drew at Saracen's?
how do you work that out? I am saying that bath's improvement this season started when hatley took over as head coach which coincides with our successful period post lockdown. Underhill said that under hatley training has been much better and very similar to england's- which is what you would expect given that hatley has been
learning from Eddie.
I would also say our improvement is the result of some shrewd recruitment in the s and c dept where we managed to get our hands on PJ Wilson, the much-respected fitness coach from munster, and Bryan Field who ran medical services at the brumbies. since then our squad has looked much fitter and less prone to injury.
we have also made better than average player recruitment and it is clear to me that hatley has been instrumental in this. as he has been going around the grounds checking on potential england players it is common sense that he has had another notebook in his pocket with 'Bath Rugby' written on the cover. Stuart, Boyce and Judge will all have been Hatley's picks.
Hooper got his job in the most disgraceful fashion. the job was never advertised- and based on hooper's CV, or lack of one, he should never have been within a country mile of a DOR job. he has never done any coaching courses or secured any sports management qualifications. indeed I cant find any mention of any formal post-18 education at all for him.
I never found one fan that I talked to about this last year- either on the terraces or in the pubs that thought differently about hooper's grooming for the top job. it was apparent the moment McDonald took him to NZ to finalise the ill-considered recruitment of Todd Blackadder. thereafter hooper was gifted any number job titles- they seemed to change weekly- but never apparently succeeded in any of them. how many games did he win as coach of the A team? or of the academy? I can't remember any.
his appointment was purely political. given that it is hatley who prepares the side, chooses the tactics and picks the team I fail to understand how hooper can stand there on match days, in front of BT's cameras, preening himself as if he is solely responsible for the wins. meanwhile hatley is nowhere to be seen!
David Humphreys, the former DOR at Glaws was much classier. He was there on match days sitting at the back of the coaching box, but he kept his head down and his mouth shut and left the media business to Ackermann.
Have to agree with Tom. This attack on Hoops is quite extraordinary. I cannot think of any DoR job for a premier club being advertised McGeechan was head hunted, Gold as well. Did Dean Richards get his coaching badges before he was recruited to the top job at Leicester? I doubt it, as soon as he hung up his playing boots he was DoR.
The club we were told at a social media meeting had got lots of references from outside sources of Hoops credentials and everyone was very complimentary on his leadership skills.
We have as I bleat often recruit from outside without much success so this experiment of recruiting from inside might work. It has done at Exeter and in the early days at Leicester.
So to say his appointment was done in a disgraceful fashion is well off the mark.
Quote:hasta
An awful lot of the pens conceded were at set piece though - scrum (Stuart especially), lineout (a couple of stupid playing the man in the air), maul (a number of in the sides). So he's not really wrong.
I see the Times found space for Stuart in their team of the week which is both confusing and amusing to this Saracens supporter.
The Eggchasers podcast seem to feel Bath are better suited to playing Chiefs than some of the other top 4 are but I think if your pack functions like it did on the weekend it will be a tough game.
I think if we function like we did in the first 40 it would be good. Second 40 not so much.
If I were picking a team of the week, I think I might just select Itoje in every position.
If I were picking a team of the week, I think I might just select Itoje in every position.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Also for Prime Minister very impressive young man.
Thought that was earmarked for Marcus Rashford! Mind you after the thrashing by the mighty Spurs he may need to change jobs!
Quote:benjbath
Sale and wasps were both gifted victories at Sarries when they fielded an awful side to focus on Champions Cup. Wasps were then gifted a bonus point by Chiefs.
I personally think we deserved 3rd, based on post lockdown performances, and the gifts other teams were granted above.
Wakey Wakey Ben.
Wasps 2nd's beat Sarries 1st...
Beat what's in front of you and you end up where you deserve.
Apologies Hymen, If that was an oversight. I did say Bath no better than 3rd and thats with a Chiefs Wasps 1, 2 so I do think the point still stands... Just saying that its been a ludicrously tight season and, though you make your own luck, there were numerous caveats that can be argued to have influenced the outcome however it finally falls.
Not least Sale potentially having to sacrifice the game.
Not least Sale potentially having to sacrifice the game.
Hooper is an easy target, but results since lockdown do not support the negative agenda.
He is head of the team which has got us where we are - has recruited and directed them. He deserves the credit.
PG
He is head of the team which has got us where we are - has recruited and directed them. He deserves the credit.
PG
Quote:HymenopteraQuote:benjbath
Sale and wasps were both gifted victories at Sarries when they fielded an awful side to focus on Champions Cup. Wasps were then gifted a bonus point by Chiefs.
I personally think we deserved 3rd, based on post lockdown performances, and the gifts other teams were granted above.
Wakey Wakey Ben.
Wasps 2nd's beat Sarries 1st...
Beat what's in front of you and you end up where you deserve.
Farrell got red-carded halfway through tbf.
Quote:hastaQuote:HymenopteraQuote:benjbath
Sale and wasps were both gifted victories at Sarries when they fielded an awful side to focus on Champions Cup. Wasps were then gifted a bonus point by Chiefs.
I personally think we deserved 3rd, based on post lockdown performances, and the gifts other teams were granted above.
Wakey Wakey Ben.
Wasps 2nd's beat Sarries 1st...
Beat what's in front of you and you end up where you deserve.
Farrell got red-carded halfway through tbf.
On 61 mins with them at 15-15 tbf. The Wasps 2nds had done very well to be in that position at the 3/4 stage irrespective of the sending off IMO. Great result for them.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Our results against the other 4 contenders:
Bris (A) 16-43
Bris (H) 13-19
Exeter (H) 13-10
Exeter (A) 20-57
Sale (A) 37-22
Sale (H) 16-14
Wasps (H) 23-27
Wasps (A) 22-30
and Sarries
(A) 17-17
(H) 12-25
18 points from a possible 50, 3 wins from 10. 2 losses by less than a score, 2 wins by less than a score. All a bit inconclusive. Were no more and no less worth a place in the play-offs than Sale, though I strongly suspect Sale will have to give in and forfeit their game.
Bris (A) 16-43
Bris (H) 13-19
Exeter (H) 13-10
Exeter (A) 20-57
Sale (A) 37-22
Sale (H) 16-14
Wasps (H) 23-27
Wasps (A) 22-30
and Sarries
(A) 17-17
(H) 12-25
18 points from a possible 50, 3 wins from 10. 2 losses by less than a score, 2 wins by less than a score. All a bit inconclusive. Were no more and no less worth a place in the play-offs than Sale, though I strongly suspect Sale will have to give in and forfeit their game.
Quote:hasta
An awful lot of the pens conceded were at set piece though - scrum (Stuart especially), lineout (a couple of stupid playing the man in the air), maul (a number of in the sides). So he's not really wrong.
A couple of bad straight into touches from Rhys and Ant conceded a lot of territory as well.
That was my memory of the major issues. The lineout ones esp annoying as fairly pointless and not esp due to being under pressure.
Arguably subbed off the wrong prop though hindsight is a great thing.
Quote:P G Tips
Hooper is an easy target, but results since lockdown do not support the negative agenda.
He is head of the team which has got us where we are - has recruited and directed them. He deserves the credit.
PG
I agree. I think recruitment has been pretty spot on. Bringing in boyce, stuart, judge, mcnally and williams, together with hatley has made us a pack to fear with good depth.
Again the recruitment of schoeman, w spencer, b spencer, redpath and muir seems good (esp ben s and redpath). Lack of a 10 clearly isn't through lack of trying.
Academy over last few seasons has churned out the likes of reid, hamer-webb and tdg....seems to now be a nice conveyor belt.
We have become a team people will worry about as hard to dominate physically.
Our defence is a lot more aggressive since restart.
My criticisms are:
Still feels we are missing something in the coaching set up
Possibly linked to above i think we are too conservative (hardly ever offload for example) and still lack accurate execution of basic handling/passing skills under pressure
Need to learn how to win tight games where we cant physically grind teams into the ground
Must get ourselves into more big games to learn how to cope with that pressure
Find it hard to believe not a single decent 10 in the world wanted to join so maybe question our approach but strange times and dont know all the complexities
Agree CBoA - I'm also pretty positive. My only criticisms would be:
- white line fever from the forwards running close to / over the bodies. We seem to have more success passing it out 5m and running a big man at an isolated defender. This also has the bonus that a grounding can be seen. not much looking side to side when it is in that pile.
- we need a top quality jackler IMO. With Flouw retired its no coincidence that the teams like Wasps who have done well with the new rules are those with guys like Willis, Curry etc. Underhill and Reid in particular are trying to add that but not there yet.
The solution to the 10 issue is eagerly awaited by everyone!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
- white line fever from the forwards running close to / over the bodies. We seem to have more success passing it out 5m and running a big man at an isolated defender. This also has the bonus that a grounding can be seen. not much looking side to side when it is in that pile.
- we need a top quality jackler IMO. With Flouw retired its no coincidence that the teams like Wasps who have done well with the new rules are those with guys like Willis, Curry etc. Underhill and Reid in particular are trying to add that but not there yet.
The solution to the 10 issue is eagerly awaited by everyone!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Yeah good shout on breakdown interpretations. Seems bayliss and reid have gone up the pecking order but whether they are the solution i am not sure.
Agree Matt, Wasps didn't so much as win the breakdown but dominated it. They did that by presenting a picture to the ref that he bought into. Bath need a bit of guile!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
P G Tips
Hooper is an easy target, but results since lockdown do not support the negative agenda.
He is head of the team which has got us where we are - has recruited and directed them. He deserves the credit.
PG
no he doesn't. see my previous post on the matter, though i suspect you already have.
Hooper is an easy target, but results since lockdown do not support the negative agenda.
He is head of the team which has got us where we are - has recruited and directed them. He deserves the credit.
PG
no he doesn't. see my previous post on the matter, though i suspect you already have.
You're in extreme minority on that one bardofavon. Hooper has overseen recruitment, including S&C and Hatley.
Quote:bardofavon
P G Tips
Hooper is an easy target, but results since lockdown do not support the negative agenda.
He is head of the team which has got us where we are - has recruited and directed them. He deserves the credit.
PG
no he doesn't. see my previous post on the matter, though i suspect you already have.
You are entitled to your minority view but dont just keep reposting it by saying everyone else is wrong. They are equally entitled to their opinion (s). If you cannot add to or enhance your case you are just repeating it which is contra the rules (laws) of the board.
Time for a S/F sticky re Chiefs/Bath, David and Goliath anyone?
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Top 4, fantastic. Now we can guess our team but who will the Exeter Chiefs select!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:Clarkey3k
Time for a S/F sticky re Chiefs/Bath, David and Goliath anyone?
Well, to a large extent it is actually still in our own hands
Quote:gaz59Quote:Clarkey3k
Time for a S/F sticky re Chiefs/Bath, David and Goliath anyone?
Well, to a large extent it is actually still in our own hands
In our own hands as to whether we create a S/F sticky? Definitely agree with that Gaz.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
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