Saracens
GLOUCESTER v SARACENS: please post match related comment
By The Saracens
December 23 2025
After a couple of disappointing performances in the Premiership (I can’t call it the Prem), Sarries travel to Castle Grim to take on Gloucester Rugby. Not usually a fixture to fill the heart with hope but Gloucester have fared even worse than Sarries this season, winning only 1 of their 7 games (at home to Quins). Sarries have also won the last 3 meetings (not that such stats helped last weekend against Chiefs).
Last Friday, Gloucester were comprehensively taken to the cleaners by a clinical Leicester Tigers team, conceding 7 tries and the Slater Cup. But they should not be underestimated. Gloucester have some very decent individuals: Charlie Atkinson, Ollie Thorley, Ross Byrn, Tomos Williams in the backs, Val Rapava Ruskin, Lewis Ludlow, Jack Clement in the forwards. Something hasn’t clicked for them them though this season but one day it will!
It will be very interesting to see what team takes the field. Will we see changes? It’s not really McCall’s style to chop and change things although squad rotation does take place. Probably the area causing most debate right now is the halfbacks. Will the management persist with Faz at 10 of is it time to let Burke run things again. Is Van Zyl fit? How about giving young Charlie B a start this week? We may well see rotation in the front 3. Our locks have looked pretty ineffective without Maro. Stick or twist? Is Willis fit? If he is he has to play. Who joins him? Earl? Gonzalez ? Christie? McFarland? In the backs I think Daly continues at 15 but what of the rest? Do we stick with Noah who looks dangerous in attack but vulnerable in defence? What about Max who still looks off the pace or do we give one of the youngsters the place? What about the centres? Tompkins ? Cinti? Loz? Faz? Hartley?
More questions than answers. Hopefully all the guys have had a good Christmas and not too much Christmas pud. Margins are very small between success and failure. In another universe, Sarries would have beaten Bath, Sharks and Chiefs. Same players, same team just a different bounce of the ball and a whole different outcome. Things would look so different.
So it’s Christmas. It’s a time of good cheer and peace on earth. No one ever said following Saracens was easy but when you have plumbed the salary cap depths, the lofty heights are even higher. Sarries have no God-given right to win anything. Which is why the little wins and the bigger wins along the way are so special: the try bonus point at Vicarage Road in May 2003 that ensured Premiership survival; the legendary defence deep into the red against Leicester in 2011 that saw Sarries finally lift the Premiership Trophy; victory in Lyon over Racing that saw a first European Champions Cup followed by a second in Edinburgh over Clermont and a third in Newcastle over Leinster; victory over Ealing Trailfinders to win the Championship and ensure the club survived and perhaps best of all, victory over Sale in the Premiership Final of 2023 that said emphatically “we’re back”. So let’s be kind to each other and to our club. Supporting Sarries means taking the hard road but we’ll get there in the end. Patience is a virtue.
Happy Christmas from all the Eds.
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StumbleuponGLOUCESTER v SARACENS: please post match related comment
Discussion started by TheSaracens.com , 23/12/2025 15:33
TheSaracens.com
23/12/2025 15:33
23/12/2025 15:33
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:08:13:33:38 by Darraghgirl.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:08:13:33:38 by Darraghgirl.
Tomas Williams unusually very poor for Gloucester against us.
Their big name signings in Byrne & Laulala have had little impact all season.
The 7 to 2 tries flattered us a little, as was often final pass or once Gloucester got into Tigers 22 that they messed things up!
Their big name signings in Byrne & Laulala have had little impact all season.
The 7 to 2 tries flattered us a little, as was often final pass or once Gloucester got into Tigers 22 that they messed things up!
Must win game and one i expect a response to hopefully some stern pre xmas words.
Making the journey to this game and for some reason I bought tickets in the Zoo...sorry Shed..
Merry Xmas all.
Making the journey to this game and for some reason I bought tickets in the Zoo...sorry Shed..
Merry Xmas all.
Excellent preview. I suspect Willis might be rested if he’s got a knock. I’d imagine Maro’s availability is determined by England rather than us so can’t see him being rushed back.
Reckon it will be Charlie and Fergus this week, possibly Spink at 13.
Wouldn’t be surprised to see McFarland and Wilson on the bench.
Owen on the bench too?
Reckon it will be Charlie and Fergus this week, possibly Spink at 13.
Wouldn’t be surprised to see McFarland and Wilson on the bench.
Owen on the bench too?
Think I read somewhere Maro has an injury (knee?) and will be out "until January". An opportunity for one of the others to stake a claim by ripping up some trees in the next couple of games, and show that the Exeter game wasn't true form.
An utterly staggering selection in my opinion.
Literally unchanged.
The 9-10 selection is….yeah. I dunno…
I’ll be cheering from the sofa. Hope I’m wrong about the result prediction.
Literally unchanged.
The 9-10 selection is….yeah. I dunno…
I’ll be cheering from the sofa. Hope I’m wrong about the result prediction.
Plenty of quality in the 23 selected so we really ought to be able to get over the winning line, even by a short nose will do!
Maybe the coaches decided this is a “prove it” game for the team that played last week
Saracens team to play Gloucester Rugby:
Rhys Carre
Theo Dan
Marcus Street
Nick Isiekwe
Hugh Tizard
Theo McFarland
Andy Onyeama-Christie
Tom Willis
Ivan Van Zyl (c)
Owen Farrell
Max Malins
Nick Tompkins
Lucio Cinti
Rotimi Segun
Elliot Daly
Replacements:
Jamie George
Eroni Mawi
Tietie Tuimauga
Juan Martin Gonzalez
Ben Earl
Charlie Bracken
Fergus Burke
Olly Hartley
Rhys Carre
Theo Dan
Marcus Street
Nick Isiekwe
Hugh Tizard
Theo McFarland
Andy Onyeama-Christie
Tom Willis
Ivan Van Zyl (c)
Owen Farrell
Max Malins
Nick Tompkins
Lucio Cinti
Rotimi Segun
Elliot Daly
Replacements:
Jamie George
Eroni Mawi
Tietie Tuimauga
Juan Martin Gonzalez
Ben Earl
Charlie Bracken
Fergus Burke
Olly Hartley
Quote:Stonexjim
An utterly staggering selection in my opinion.
Literally unchanged.
The 9-10 selection is….yeah. I dunno…
I’ll be cheering from the sofa. Hope I’m wrong about the result prediction.
A few changes in there- Cinti and Theo M in, Segun and AOC starting, no Riccioni or Caluori (maybe explains the matters substitution last week):
Rhys Carre
Theo Dan
Marcus Street
Nick Isiekwe
Hugh Tizard
Theo McFarland
Andy Onyeama-Christie
Tom Willis
Ivan Van Zyl (c)
Owen Farrell
Max Malins
Nick Tompkins
Lucio Cinti
Rotimi Segun
Elliot Daly
Replacements:
Jamie George
Eroni Mawi
Tietie Tuimauga
Juan Martin Gonzalez
Ben Earl
Charlie Bracken
Fergus Burke
Olly Hartley
Referee: Adam Leal
ARs: Karl Dickson & Veryan Boscawen
TMO: Stuart Terheege
ARs: Karl Dickson & Veryan Boscawen
TMO: Stuart Terheege
As I said elsewhere, a team it is impossible to play your way in to or out of. Not a healthy place to be imo but desperately hope I am wrong.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:26:13:26:48 by Sarrov.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:26:13:26:48 by Sarrov.
Quote:Sarrov
As I said elsewhere, a team it is impossible to play your way in to or out of. Not a healthy place to be imo but desperately hope I am wrong.
Totally agree.
The only thing you can guarantee if you play awfully is that you’ll be selected 7 days later
I’m bemused by the selection policy that Mark is adopting at the moment. I don't understand why Owen is being picked at 10; I don't know what Burke is or isn't doing that the coaches have lost faith in him; I don't know why the young players aren't being picked.
And most of all, I don't understand why a team that managed to lose a game from two winning positions is given another chance 🤷♂️.
If this is simply rotation, then I 100% agree with the statement that you can't play yourself in or out of the team. Surely, ignoring form is madness!
And most of all, I don't understand why a team that managed to lose a game from two winning positions is given another chance 🤷♂️.
If this is simply rotation, then I 100% agree with the statement that you can't play yourself in or out of the team. Surely, ignoring form is madness!
I am ok with most of the selections but keeping Burke on the bench really doesn’t make sense, unless he has already told the coaches he is going elsewhere next season. I still rate IVZ so would pick him ahead of Charlie; that doesn’t mean I understand why he wasn’t subbed last week when clearly injured.
The most dangerous set of words in investing selection is “this time will be different”.
Erm, not sure. Would have liked to have seen the back line mixed up particularly the half backs.
We are venturing down to Kingsholm for the first time to cheer the boys on, so I hope the journey home won’t be too depressing and we aren’t dissecting another defeat from the jaws of victory.
Be good to see our new 9 playing for Glos, bet he has a stormer!
We are venturing down to Kingsholm for the first time to cheer the boys on, so I hope the journey home won’t be too depressing and we aren’t dissecting another defeat from the jaws of victory.
Be good to see our new 9 playing for Glos, bet he has a stormer!
Unbelievable team selection after last few weeks performances or lack of.
Going tomorrow but expecting the worst tbh
Tompkins and Cinti at 12-13 does not work.
Going tomorrow but expecting the worst tbh
Tompkins and Cinti at 12-13 does not work.
Combinations take time to gel. I don't imagine they've played together more than half a dozen times.
Quote:Eric Browett
Combinations take time to gel. I don't imagine they've played together more than half a dozen times.
Still waiting for IVZ-Farrell-Tompkins to gel.
#transition
IvZ is simply not good enough anymore - I can't remember when he last had a decent run of form. I'm very much in the Farrell fan club but he was poor against Chiefs. Personally I would have dropped both of them but hopefully they have enough IP to outsmart a very poor Glos team.
Nothing less than 5pts will do though.
Nothing less than 5pts will do though.
Well England managed to win a crazy test match in Australia (first time in 15 years) so anything is possible before kick off!
Quote:Toga
IvZ is simply not good enough anymore - I can't remember when he last had a decent run of form. I'm very much in the Farrell fan club but he was poor against Chiefs. Personally I would have dropped both of them but hopefully they have enough IP to outsmart a very poor Glos team.
Nothing less than 5pts will do though.
Van Zyl had a good game at Kingsholm last season from what I can remember
Has to be his last chance before Bracken gets a run
Two poor sides playing poor rugby poorly.
Biggest ray of light is probably that we’ve got their scrum half for next season to do the “sit on the bench regardless of IVZ’s performances” role.
Biggest ray of light is probably that we’ve got their scrum half for next season to do the “sit on the bench regardless of IVZ’s performances” role.
Dan and Willis carrying well but our defense at times is creaking and as usual 4-5 playing in their bespoke cloaking devices.
IVZ is frankly a waste of a 9 shirt and Williams sending him down Glos High Street sums him up.
IVZ is frankly a waste of a 9 shirt and Williams sending him down Glos High Street sums him up.
We have had some serious help from the ref here
Carre with a clear knock on before McFarlands 2nd try
Carre with a clear knock on before McFarlands 2nd try
Guess a win is a win.
However, Gloucester are very very bad and I’m not sure we were much better.
Other than Tom, Segun and maybe McFarland I thought we were generally unimpressive. Our backs are poor. We really need to think about Spink at 12 or 13 to provide a bit of direction. Daly is lacking a yard or 3 nowadays and Max looks a shadow of the player he used to be.
Didn’t think we’d be challenging top 4 before today and nothing I saw changes that.
However, Gloucester are very very bad and I’m not sure we were much better.
Other than Tom, Segun and maybe McFarland I thought we were generally unimpressive. Our backs are poor. We really need to think about Spink at 12 or 13 to provide a bit of direction. Daly is lacking a yard or 3 nowadays and Max looks a shadow of the player he used to be.
Didn’t think we’d be challenging top 4 before today and nothing I saw changes that.
I think some of the above comments are very unfair indeed. I thought that there were a lot of decent performances from the Sarries team especially the forwards. In fact the only disappointment was Jamie’s line out throwing! We dominated the line out and we got more go forward in the tackle area with Tom the stand out but plenty of other useful contributions. I loved the turnover penalty and try saving tackle that Burke made in his cameo. Shame Gloucester scored at the end but to bring 5 points home from Castle Grim is always a good result.
All we need now is for us to repeat last year and play our best game of the year away to Leicester.
All we need now is for us to repeat last year and play our best game of the year away to Leicester.
Quote:ComeOnSarries
I think some of the above comments are very unfair indeed. I thought that there were a lot of decent performances from the Sarries team especially the forwards. In fact the only disappointment was Jamie’s line out throwing! We dominated the line out and we got more go forward in the tackle area with Tom the stand out but plenty of other useful contributions. I loved the turnover penalty and try saving tackle that Burke made in his cameo. Shame Gloucester scored at the end but to bring 5 points home from Castle Grim is always a good result.
All we need now is for us to repeat last year and play our best game of the year away to Leicester.
Agree on the negative comments. I get that impression that some of the McCall out brigade will write their critical posts regardless of the result and performance. There will always be a "but" caveat if Saracens win and a "told you so" if they lose
Dan , Begun and Willis outstanding. Carre was mullered in the scrum.
Feel our backs still aren't gelling and against better teams our lack of cohesion hurts us.
Feel our backs still aren't gelling and against better teams our lack of cohesion hurts us.
Gloucester are a poor side but we put them away pretty comfortably and I'm not sure you can ask for much more.
Felt like we had a run of decisions go against us in the last 15mins or so which stalled the momentum we had been building. Pretty baffled how stopping a counter attack by stamping on the ball carrier's foot then slide tackling him was deemed play on!
Felt like we had a run of decisions go against us in the last 15mins or so which stalled the momentum we had been building. Pretty baffled how stopping a counter attack by stamping on the ball carrier's foot then slide tackling him was deemed play on!
Quote:JK12
Dan , Begun and Willis outstanding. Carre was mullered in the scrum.
Feel our backs still aren't gelling and against better teams our lack of cohesion hurts us.
Were we watching the same game? At what point did Carre mullered? Maybe lost the hit on one but hardly mullered. Shocking take,
Leal is a baffling referee tbh and his scrun calls made no sense.
One last point Isiekwe was far better 2nd half and as I give him a fair share of pelters he deserves praise for upping his physicality.
One last point Isiekwe was far better 2nd half and as I give him a fair share of pelters he deserves praise for upping his physicality.
Negative comment folk. Rewatch the match and see if you can justify your negativity. I don't think you can. I might agree re our scrum half.
Quote:TogaQuote:ComeOnSarries
I think some of the above comments are very unfair indeed. I thought that there were a lot of decent performances from the Sarries team especially the forwards. In fact the only disappointment was Jamie’s line out throwing! We dominated the line out and we got more go forward in the tackle area with Tom the stand out but plenty of other useful contributions. I loved the turnover penalty and try saving tackle that Burke made in his cameo. Shame Gloucester scored at the end but to bring 5 points home from Castle Grim is always a good result.
All we need now is for us to repeat last year and play our best game of the year away to Leicester.
Agree on the negative comments. I get that impression that some of the McCall out brigade will write their critical posts regardless of the result and performance. There will always be a "but" caveat if Saracens win and a "told you so" if they lose
Was this a dig at me?
Don’t know if you watched but i don’t think it’s unfair to say we were not very good.
Our attack is one dimensional and pedestrian. Two pick and go tries, one cross field kick and one peel from the front of a lineout: hardly a great display of attacking rugby. Gloucester are a bad side and that must be taken into consideration surely? Just as if we lose narrowly to Toulouse we can take the fact they’re a great side into account.
Also noted you criticised IVZs selection earlier. Pretty brave to disagree with the coaching staff.
Hope you’ve done all your coaching badges and won the European cup in the past?
Quote:#wolfpack1Quote:TogaQuote:ComeOnSarries
I think some of the above comments are very unfair indeed. I thought that there were a lot of decent performances from the Sarries team especially the forwards. In fact the only disappointment was Jamie’s line out throwing! We dominated the line out and we got more go forward in the tackle area with Tom the stand out but plenty of other useful contributions. I loved the turnover penalty and try saving tackle that Burke made in his cameo. Shame Gloucester scored at the end but to bring 5 points home from Castle Grim is always a good result.
All we need now is for us to repeat last year and play our best game of the year away to Leicester.
Agree on the negative comments. I get that impression that some of the McCall out brigade will write their critical posts regardless of the result and performance. There will always be a "but" caveat if Saracens win and a "told you so" if they lose
Was this a dig at me?
Don’t know if you watched but i don’t think it’s unfair to say we were not very good.
Our attack is one dimensional and pedestrian. Two pick and go tries, one cross field kick and one peel from the front of a lineout: hardly a great display of attacking rugby. Gloucester are a bad side and that must be taken into consideration surely? Just as if we lose narrowly to Toulouse we can take the fact they’re a great side into account.
Also noted you criticised IVZs selection earlier. Pretty brave to disagree with the coaching staff.
Hope you’ve done all your coaching badges and won the European cup in the past?
If IvZ played well then I'd say I was wrong and admit he played well. Having the humility to say you aren't right all the time is fine by me - and changing your mind is ok too. I also said Farrell should have been dropped in the same sentence.
This sites become a joke.
Carre was fine. There was no knock on. Leal was shocking. Missed loads. Glaws players rewarded off their feet. Tackling 4 or 5 meters past the ball. Not straight lineouts. Baffling calls at times.
Sarries carried well. Kept their shape Segun was busy. Max still looks shy of confidence. Pack was fine
Was also noted in Comms we are the first side to bag 40 trys. 7 TBPs and highest scoring... boring boring sarries.
Doesnt scream dull. Flannagan making progress?
Castle grim is always just that however bad they are. A confidence boosting 5 points i hope. Maro will make a difference fingers crossed its backed up at Tigers.
Take the win and cheer up.
Carre was fine. There was no knock on. Leal was shocking. Missed loads. Glaws players rewarded off their feet. Tackling 4 or 5 meters past the ball. Not straight lineouts. Baffling calls at times.
Sarries carried well. Kept their shape Segun was busy. Max still looks shy of confidence. Pack was fine
Was also noted in Comms we are the first side to bag 40 trys. 7 TBPs and highest scoring... boring boring sarries.
Doesnt scream dull. Flannagan making progress?
Castle grim is always just that however bad they are. A confidence boosting 5 points i hope. Maro will make a difference fingers crossed its backed up at Tigers.
Take the win and cheer up.
wolfpack1 - have you watched Spink play since he arrived at Saracens? Whatever the question is, he is not the answer. Unfortunately for him he is terribly injury prone and is rarely available for selection. I've watched him in his few appearances for the 'A' side and he has failed to impress. I would love to be proved wrong but imo he is way down the centres' pecking order.
I was there and thought we did very well. Excellent defence, kept our shape well.
How anyon3 can criticise Isiekwe and Tizard for that performance beyond me, they were excellent and Nick must hav3 been in the MOM reckoning.
It was far windier there than it may have looked, both teams struggled to clear their line going up the slope.
Leal may not get everything right but having seen him at Quins reffing us he absolutely isn’t a homer.
I bumped into Karl Dickson at the services on the way down, thankfully reassured me he wasn’t reffing but on the flag.
Very strange incident with Fergus being tripped.
Surely that still counts as a no arms tackle?
How anyon3 can criticise Isiekwe and Tizard for that performance beyond me, they were excellent and Nick must hav3 been in the MOM reckoning.
It was far windier there than it may have looked, both teams struggled to clear their line going up the slope.
Leal may not get everything right but having seen him at Quins reffing us he absolutely isn’t a homer.
I bumped into Karl Dickson at the services on the way down, thankfully reassured me he wasn’t reffing but on the flag.
Very strange incident with Fergus being tripped.
Surely that still counts as a no arms tackle?
Quote:Eric Browett
wolfpack1 - have you watched Spink play since he arrived at Saracens? Whatever the question is, he is not the answer. Unfortunately for him he is terribly injury prone and is rarely available for selection. I've watched him in his few appearances for the 'A' side and he has failed to impress. I would love to be proved wrong but imo he is way down the centres' pecking order.
Yes I have.
He is clearly desperately injury prone, that is indisputable and a shame for him and for us. And has severely limited his ability to make an impact.
I think he’s done ok for the “A” side. I was at Harelquins Away in the cup and then I was one of the 30 odd fools who turned up to watch Northampton at home in a monsoon the week after, and thought he did ok in both (especially the Quins game where I thought he was good).
There is no direct runner in any 10-12-13 combination without one of Hartley at 12 or Spink at 13. Our backs play seems to be one ball out the back to Daly who has a choice of whether to hurl a long wide loopy ball to a winger or to grubber it. I’d play Spink (or at least have a look at him in the first team) because he will give some direction in the centres. Imo that’s direction we’re severely lacking atm.
Didn’t watch the game today.
Pretty much went how I expected it to v an awful Gloucester team. I’m not going to get too excited by that result-I’m sorry.
I do agree with Wolfpack in that I think our attack is millennia behind most in the league.
It’s a pleasing 5 points. But I’m going to reserve judgment until after tigers.
Pretty much went how I expected it to v an awful Gloucester team. I’m not going to get too excited by that result-I’m sorry.
I do agree with Wolfpack in that I think our attack is millennia behind most in the league.
It’s a pleasing 5 points. But I’m going to reserve judgment until after tigers.
[quote Stonexjim]Didn’t watch the game today.
Maybe sit this one out then...
Maybe sit this one out then...
I agree we need a 'direct' option at 12. For me that's definitely Hartley rather than Spink. Less injury prone and possibly a higher ceiling. We've never effectively replaced Barritt who was our glue player in midfield for a decade..
[quote saracen1971][quote Stonexjim]Didn’t watch the game today.
Maybe sit this one out then...[/quote]
Ah the predictable response from the happy brigade.
Praise the team and laud absolutely everything about them and the coaches- “come and sign up!”
Offer minor critique compared to the critique of the last few weeks- “sit this one out”
Maybe sit this one out then...[/quote]
Ah the predictable response from the happy brigade.
Praise the team and laud absolutely everything about them and the coaches- “come and sign up!”
Offer minor critique compared to the critique of the last few weeks- “sit this one out”
Hartley should be starting at 13 ahead of Cinti he looks a great physical presence when hes played. Cinti has a soft shoulder in defense which will continue to be exploited.
Feel next weekend is a more testing one and a barometer for where we are. Maro being back and hopefully we can sneak one.
Reality is I dont feel we are one of best 4 teams and dont really see that changing this year.
Feel next weekend is a more testing one and a barometer for where we are. Maro being back and hopefully we can sneak one.
Reality is I dont feel we are one of best 4 teams and dont really see that changing this year.
Spink has looked good each time hes played this season, reckon he’d go well if chosen but really needs a run of games. He wasn’t in the large warm up squad today or at Ampthill, really hoping he isn’t crocked again..
Sorry, stonexjim, but it seems a pretty fair comment to say you can't really have an opinion about our or Gloucester's performance if you haven't watched the match. How can it have gone 'pretty much as you expected'?
Quote:JK12
Hartley should be starting at 13 ahead of Cinti he looks a great physical presence when hes played. Cinti has a soft shoulder in defense which will continue to be exploited.
Feel next weekend is a more testing one and a barometer for where we are. Maro being back and hopefully we can sneak one.
Reality is I dont feel we are one of best 4 teams and dont really see that changing this year.
Careful JK.
That sounds like mild critique. Not sure that’s allowed round these parts. Off to the gulag!
Not sure I agree that Hartley is the answer at 13. Feel he’s a very one option man. Yes we need hard runners but feel 13 needs to be a more creative player that can open teams up. Just seem to be very devoid of how to do this in the backline. Personally, although I don’t think it should be long term, really thought Burke-faz-nt was a really good midfield trio at the start of the season. Even made Ivz look good at 9. No idea why we changed it to be honest.
Agree we’re not a top 4 team this year. And as myself and many other “negative nellys” have said countless times-that’s ok! Just want to see us at least doing something about it.
Quote:JK12
Hartley should be starting at 13 ahead of Cinti he looks a great physical presence when hes played. Cinti has a soft shoulder in defense which will continue to be exploited.
Feel next weekend is a more testing one and a barometer for where we are. Maro being back and hopefully we can sneak one.
Reality is I dont feel we are one of best 4 teams and dont really see that changing this year.
Hartley is a 12, not a 13. He has made a couple of appearances there for Ampthill but it is a very different position, especially in defence.
Cinti is an international 13 whose "soft shoulder" doesn't seem to cause Argentina issues. Without him we then also have even less pace and no strike runner in the midfield.
He isn't an English Prem Centre sorry just feel hes suspect and nearly gave a try away today save for a Tomplins saving tackle.
Quote:Eric Browett
Sorry, stonexjim, but it seems a pretty fair comment to say you can't really have an opinion about our or Gloucester's performance if you haven't watched the match. How can it have gone 'pretty much as you expected'?
Eric I didn’t want to but you’ve forced me to play this card.
I literally here week on week from one or more guests on the Fezcast (a podcast I really enjoy listening to by the way) that they didn’t watch it (the men’s or women’s game) but saw the highlights or read about it in the media.
Does that mean their points are also invalid?
[quote Stonexjim][quote saracen1971][quote Stonexjim]Didn’t watch the game today.
Maybe sit this one out then...[/quote]
Ah the predictable response from the happy brigade.
Praise the team and laud absolutely everything about them and the coaches- “come and sign up!”
Offer minor critique compared to the critique of the last few weeks- “sit this one out”[/quote]
Your not in a position to offer any Critique chap. You didnt watch the game.
Maybe sit this one out then...[/quote]
Ah the predictable response from the happy brigade.
Praise the team and laud absolutely everything about them and the coaches- “come and sign up!”
Offer minor critique compared to the critique of the last few weeks- “sit this one out”[/quote]
Your not in a position to offer any Critique chap. You didnt watch the game.
[quote saracen1971][quote Stonexjim][quote saracen1971][quote Stonexjim]Didn’t watch the game today.
Maybe sit this one out then...[/quote]
Ah the predictable response from the happy brigade.
Praise the team and laud absolutely everything about them and the coaches- “come and sign up!”
Offer minor critique compared to the critique of the last few weeks- “sit this one out”[/quote]
Your not in a position to offer any Critique chap. You didnt watch the game.[/quote]
How many premiership and European trophies have you won as coach then?
Maybe sit this one out then...[/quote]
Ah the predictable response from the happy brigade.
Praise the team and laud absolutely everything about them and the coaches- “come and sign up!”
Offer minor critique compared to the critique of the last few weeks- “sit this one out”[/quote]
Your not in a position to offer any Critique chap. You didnt watch the game.[/quote]
How many premiership and European trophies have you won as coach then?
[quote Stonexjim]
Ah the predictable response from the happy brigade.
Praise the team and laud absolutely everything about them and the coaches- “come and sign up!”
Absolute garbage. I scream and rant as much if not more than the next man or woman. Im 100% invested in my team and want them to win (or put on a display) every week. I get frustrated at tactics and selections and sometimes wonder what they've been doing all week.
Im also not an International player, British Lion or title winning coach. Never has the expression "they've forgotten more about rugby than i know" ever been more apt.
Which is why i chose my comments and offer just an opinion unlike so many on here who clearly have the answer to a decade of domestic domination.
Ah the predictable response from the happy brigade.
Praise the team and laud absolutely everything about them and the coaches- “come and sign up!”
Absolute garbage. I scream and rant as much if not more than the next man or woman. Im 100% invested in my team and want them to win (or put on a display) every week. I get frustrated at tactics and selections and sometimes wonder what they've been doing all week.
Im also not an International player, British Lion or title winning coach. Never has the expression "they've forgotten more about rugby than i know" ever been more apt.
Which is why i chose my comments and offer just an opinion unlike so many on here who clearly have the answer to a decade of domestic domination.
Quote:Stonexjim
I think our attack is millennia behind most in the league.
Saracens are the highest scorers in the league.
Just saying. Might be important.
Quote:TogaQuote:Stonexjim
I think our attack is millennia behind most in the league.
Saracens are the highest scorers in the league.
Just saying. Might be important.
All with Ivz at scrum half.
Glad you don’t make the selection decisions.
Please guys keep it civil.
Personal attacks will not be tolerated on this message board - my magic fairy wand will send them to oblivion if this continues
We won, we got 5 points away at Castle Grim
Let's take the positives
Go Sarries
Personal attacks will not be tolerated on this message board - my magic fairy wand will send them to oblivion if this continues
We won, we got 5 points away at Castle Grim
Let's take the positives
Go Sarries
[quote Stonexjim][quote saracen1971][quote Stonexjim][quote saracen1971][quote Stonexjim]
How many premiership and European trophies have you won as coach then?[/quote]
None. But i was at every one. Even the ones we lost. And having watched them i feel able to form an opinion.
See my point?
How many premiership and European trophies have you won as coach then?[/quote]
None. But i was at every one. Even the ones we lost. And having watched them i feel able to form an opinion.
See my point?
Quote:StonexjimQuote:TogaQuote:Stonexjim
I think our attack is millennia behind most in the league.
Saracens are the highest scorers in the league.
Just saying. Might be important.
All with Ivz at scrum half.
Glad you don’t make the selection decisions.
And Mark McCall as head coach.
Quote:TogaQuote:StonexjimQuote:TogaQuote:Stonexjim
I think our attack is millennia behind most in the league.
Saracens are the highest scorers in the league.
Just saying. Might be important.
All with Ivz at scrum half.
Glad you don’t make the selection decisions.
And Mark McCall as head coach.
As much as we disagree, that made me laugh 😆
[quote saracen1971][quote Stonexjim][quote saracen1971][quote Stonexjim][quote saracen1971][quote Stonexjim]
How many premiership and European trophies have you won as coach then?[/quote]
None. But i was at every one. Even the ones we lost. And having watched them i feel able to form an opinion.
See my point?[/quote]
The we are literal equals.
How many premiership and European trophies have you won as coach then?[/quote]
None. But i was at every one. Even the ones we lost. And having watched them i feel able to form an opinion.
See my point?[/quote]
The we are literal equals.
I recommend checking out Saints performance with a young side away at Bath.
Compare their accuracy, pace and intent etc with ours away against an abject Gloucester team.
Compare their accuracy, pace and intent etc with ours away against an abject Gloucester team.
Quote:StonexjimQuote:TogaQuote:Stonexjim
I think our attack is millennia behind most in the league.
Saracens are the highest scorers in the league.
Just saying. Might be important.
All with Ivz at scrum half.
Glad you don’t make the selection decisions.
Best performance of the season and highest points scored were in the Sale game where Bracken played
[quote Stonexjim][quote saracen1971][quote Stonexjim][quote saracen1971][quote Stonexjim][quote saracen1971][quote Stonexjim]
How many premiership and European trophies have you won as coach then?[/quote]
None. But i was at every one. Even the ones we lost. And having watched them i feel able to form an opinion.
See my point?[/quote]
The we are literal equals.[/quote]
I dont recall stating anything different? Other than my ability to comment on todays game is greater than yours having ACTUALLY watched it..
How many premiership and European trophies have you won as coach then?[/quote]
None. But i was at every one. Even the ones we lost. And having watched them i feel able to form an opinion.
See my point?[/quote]
The we are literal equals.[/quote]
I dont recall stating anything different? Other than my ability to comment on todays game is greater than yours having ACTUALLY watched it..
5 points which is all we could ask for.
In an ideal world probably a win for Chiefs tomorrow and nothing for Tigers as that gives us the chance of climbing above them if we were to win when we meet next.
Willis exceptional as always. Segun absolute quality with ball in hand. It's also really good to see McFarland getting back to something like his old form.
Our own lineout a bit mixed again but we caused them quite a lot of problems with our own jumpers primarily Isiekwe.
Not sure we got rewarded as we deserved at scrum time especially given the Porter-esque angles of Glaws LooseHead.
Good to see Burke and Bracken get some game time would have been good to see them at the same time and without Farrell.
Burke's first touch a bit of a shocker but there after decent. Great in defence.
Williams assist for Glaws try absolutely sensational.
I've seen nothing in a Prem game to suggest that Spink is worth a run of games whilst Cintis performances against teams like SA, ABs and England convince me he might have a future as a club 13 ...
In the later game today a Saints team missing some of their top players showed how to take the game to a more expensive, more physical and in theory a squad with greater depth than them selves.
They did that by backing themselves to keep possession and test the opposition with speed of play and movement and judicious heavy carrying to commit defence whilst operating off a solid but not dominant platform.
These are all things we can do. These are all things we already have the players for.
They just need to be given the opportunity.
In an ideal world probably a win for Chiefs tomorrow and nothing for Tigers as that gives us the chance of climbing above them if we were to win when we meet next.
Willis exceptional as always. Segun absolute quality with ball in hand. It's also really good to see McFarland getting back to something like his old form.
Our own lineout a bit mixed again but we caused them quite a lot of problems with our own jumpers primarily Isiekwe.
Not sure we got rewarded as we deserved at scrum time especially given the Porter-esque angles of Glaws LooseHead.
Good to see Burke and Bracken get some game time would have been good to see them at the same time and without Farrell.
Burke's first touch a bit of a shocker but there after decent. Great in defence.
Williams assist for Glaws try absolutely sensational.
I've seen nothing in a Prem game to suggest that Spink is worth a run of games whilst Cintis performances against teams like SA, ABs and England convince me he might have a future as a club 13 ...
In the later game today a Saints team missing some of their top players showed how to take the game to a more expensive, more physical and in theory a squad with greater depth than them selves.
They did that by backing themselves to keep possession and test the opposition with speed of play and movement and judicious heavy carrying to commit defence whilst operating off a solid but not dominant platform.
These are all things we can do. These are all things we already have the players for.
They just need to be given the opportunity.
Quote:#wolfpack1
I recommend checking out Saints performance with a young side away at Bath.
Compare their accuracy, pace and intent etc with ours away against an abject Gloucester team.
+1
IVZ played OK, his tempo was fine. The temptation to have go at him without justification is unreasonable. Agree Williams next season is a cut above
Quote:gerry1
IVZ played OK, his tempo was fine. The temptation to have go at him without justification is unreasonable. Agree Williams next season is a cut above
Williams brought similar tempo to Glaws than Van-Zyl did to Sarries but he also showed a few moments that were just top drawer.
Van-Zyls kicking let him down a bit today but otherwise was decent and continued the sniping runs from last game that bought us valuable metres.
There are people happy to condemn him on the basis of slowing possession when he's been speeding up our ruck ball all season.
Not sure what their agenda is but agenda it must be as it's factually nonsense.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:27:21:22:55 by PaulHerox.
I second DG's comment. Keep it civil or get banned. Simple.
Quite a few people on this board need to grow up.
Quite a few people on this board need to grow up.
I’m not going to get into the@#$%&that’s going on here.
I can only report what I saw from being at Kingsholm today without the aid of TV or replays. However, I did see the stats on Planet Rugby which showed our breakdown averaging 2.9 seconds to Glos’ 4.3 secs. Apart from a charge down and one near miss, IVZ had a sound game, passed quickly and was doing what every 9 should do - being in the right place at the right time for his try, brilliantly worked by Tom and Jamie.
Little Theo was great as per, entire 16 man scrum was a bit of a mess and I couldn’t see from my decent seats in the Malvern stand who was at fault, but I don’t think we were mullered or being pushed back all the time. Big Nick was immense stealing their line out (3) and generally disrupting - he was our MoTM. Big Tiz was doing a lot of the hard unseen grunt, he got over the gain line a lot. Tom was his usual excellent self and the one departure we will struggle to replace. Daz looked class and Marcus put in a 60-odd minute shift, so not sure he was going backwards from my perspective. Big shout out to Roti who had one of his best games for us, always looked threatening. Pleased that Ferg got 25 mins and that Charlie also got on.
Glos fans around me and the couple of great guys we got talking to in the coffee queue (thanks for making us feel so welcome, lads) are really disillusioned with the way their season is going and the bloke next to me is giving his season ticket up next year - he’d been a ST holder for decades. They weren’t at their best today and made a lot of errors - I do feel that Saints or Bath would’ve put a few more points on them compared to us.
Tomas W was booed by some when he was announced to the faithful, but you can see the great player we are getting from his magic for their second try!
A good win that we needed to get today - much more difficult next week up at Welford. Enjoy the win lads.
I can only report what I saw from being at Kingsholm today without the aid of TV or replays. However, I did see the stats on Planet Rugby which showed our breakdown averaging 2.9 seconds to Glos’ 4.3 secs. Apart from a charge down and one near miss, IVZ had a sound game, passed quickly and was doing what every 9 should do - being in the right place at the right time for his try, brilliantly worked by Tom and Jamie.
Little Theo was great as per, entire 16 man scrum was a bit of a mess and I couldn’t see from my decent seats in the Malvern stand who was at fault, but I don’t think we were mullered or being pushed back all the time. Big Nick was immense stealing their line out (3) and generally disrupting - he was our MoTM. Big Tiz was doing a lot of the hard unseen grunt, he got over the gain line a lot. Tom was his usual excellent self and the one departure we will struggle to replace. Daz looked class and Marcus put in a 60-odd minute shift, so not sure he was going backwards from my perspective. Big shout out to Roti who had one of his best games for us, always looked threatening. Pleased that Ferg got 25 mins and that Charlie also got on.
Glos fans around me and the couple of great guys we got talking to in the coffee queue (thanks for making us feel so welcome, lads) are really disillusioned with the way their season is going and the bloke next to me is giving his season ticket up next year - he’d been a ST holder for decades. They weren’t at their best today and made a lot of errors - I do feel that Saints or Bath would’ve put a few more points on them compared to us.
Tomas W was booed by some when he was announced to the faithful, but you can see the great player we are getting from his magic for their second try!
A good win that we needed to get today - much more difficult next week up at Welford. Enjoy the win lads.
Quote:Strangelove
I’m not going to get into the@#$%&that’s going on here.
I can only report what I saw from being at Kingsholm today without the aid of TV or replays. However, I did see the stats on Planet Rugby which showed our breakdown averaging 2.9 seconds to Glos’ 4.3 secs. Apart from a charge down and one near miss, IVZ had a sound game, passed quickly and was doing what every 9 should do - being in the right place at the right time for his try, brilliantly worked by Tom and Jamie.
Little Theo was great as per, entire 16 man scrum was a bit of a mess and I couldn’t see from my decent seats in the Malvern stand who was at fault, but I don’t think we were mullered or being pushed back all the time. Big Nick was immense stealing their line out (3) and generally disrupting - he was our MoTM. Big Tiz was doing a lot of the hard unseen grunt, he got over the gain line a lot. Tom was his usual excellent self and the one departure we will struggle to replace. Daz looked class and Marcus put in a 60-odd minute shift, so not sure he was going backwards from my perspective. Big shout out to Roti who had one of his best games for us, always looked threatening. Pleased that Ferg got 25 mins and that Charlie also got on.
Glos fans around me and the couple of great guys we got talking to in the coffee queue (thanks for making us feel so welcome, lads) are really disillusioned with the way their season is going and the bloke next to me is giving his season ticket up next year - he’d been a ST holder for decades. They weren’t at their best today and made a lot of errors - I do feel that Saints or Bath would’ve put a few more points on them compared to us.
Tomas W was booed by some when he was announced to the faithful, but you can see the great player we are getting from his magic for their second try!
A good win that we needed to get today - much more difficult next week up at Welford. Enjoy the win lads.
Hell of a lot of sense in this post, nothing I would disagree with.
My initial feeling after the game was one of frustration, it felt like as soon as we did something good in defence, which was fairly regular, we followed up with a mistake in attack and gave up all momentum. This was probably more of a reflection of the last 20 mins.
The first half it felt like we largely dealt with the wind well and our tries were all well crafted. It was interesting to see we were the first team to reach 40 tries this season which points to our kicking not being great and also our defence.
Individually Willis (as always), Dan and McFarland really stood out in the pack. Isiekwe seemed to largely ruin their lineout too. The more I seeiu Street play the more I become a big fan. Segun was brilliant today too both in attack and winning turnovers.
Sloppy play would’ve been punished by a better team, we can only hope we pull together our performance of the season so far at Welford Road to really help our playoff chances.
Lastly, I am very confused as to how a sliding football style foul cannot be penalised as a pen, accident or not.very strange!
The first half it felt like we largely dealt with the wind well and our tries were all well crafted. It was interesting to see we were the first team to reach 40 tries this season which points to our kicking not being great and also our defence.
Individually Willis (as always), Dan and McFarland really stood out in the pack. Isiekwe seemed to largely ruin their lineout too. The more I seeiu Street play the more I become a big fan. Segun was brilliant today too both in attack and winning turnovers.
Sloppy play would’ve been punished by a better team, we can only hope we pull together our performance of the season so far at Welford Road to really help our playoff chances.
Lastly, I am very confused as to how a sliding football style foul cannot be penalised as a pen, accident or not.very strange!
It is difficult to argue against Willis being given the MoTM award, however on this occasion I believe it should have been given to Roti for his numerous breaks, defence and generally popping up everywhere
Quote:gerry1
It is difficult to argue against Willis being given the MoTM award, however on this occasion I believe it should have been given to Roti for his numerous breaks, defence and generally popping up everywhere
It was really great to see. It's also that we use him in field as well as out on his wing. Malins showed last week as well how effective that is for attacking players who read the space and game well. The flatter our play-makers play the more devastating those players will be. Add Caluori with ball-in-hand not just chasing kicks and Elliott when he returns and there are some great options there.
I've not seen enough of him to agree with that TommyKentish but he looks quick and has shown well in his cameos.
In a similar vein to our forwards where we have a group of lighter, quicker, skilful players in the backrow the more we embrace a style that rewards those types the better, I suspect we will do.
I also feel much as we obviously miss Itoje its perhaps no bad thing for him to have time off recovering and us to work out how we do without him.
We definitely need to figure that out for Willis who is about 60% of our go-forward right now.
In a similar vein to our forwards where we have a group of lighter, quicker, skilful players in the backrow the more we embrace a style that rewards those types the better, I suspect we will do.
I also feel much as we obviously miss Itoje its perhaps no bad thing for him to have time off recovering and us to work out how we do without him.
We definitely need to figure that out for Willis who is about 60% of our go-forward right now.
Quote:Stonexjim
Personally, although I don’t think it should be long term, really thought Burke-faz-nt was a really good midfield trio at the start of the season. Even made Ivz look good at 9. No idea why we changed it to be honest.
I thought it looked good as well. As to why it changed, from memory I think we had been a bit short on centres and it was changed around the time that Cinti became available again after the Autumn internationals
Quote:Stonexjim
I literally here week on week from one or more guests on the Fezcast (a podcast I really enjoy listening to by the way) that they didn’t watch it (the men’s or women’s game) but saw the highlights or read about it in the media. Does that mean their points are also invalid?
This gives me an opportunity to make a desperate plea on behalf of us on the Fezcast, because despite appreciating the positivity here this is actually a bit of a problem! Despite having a core of 4 or 5 of us, with the Fezcast being an amateur 'spare time' thing, the challenge of squeezing in recording, editing and publishing something in the couple of days between the weekend's matches and when the show goes out often means that we have to just go with whoever is available, regardless of how much of the action they've actually seen. I for example am essentially "home only" as a season ticket and a TNT subscription doesn't stack up, and life has thrown several curveballs which means I've been pretty limited in being available for the show anyway.
There's a broadly open door for anyone who'd be interested in getting involved if you can give up an evening hour every week or two, and especially if you are or knows anyone who is interested in the media and editing side of things (maybe you have a young relative doing media studies and needs something for their portfolio?). Its a fair bit of effort just to get it to the haphazard standard we have now, so appreciate everyone who gets some form of enjoyment out of it and keeps us going.
Quote:ICantBelieveItsNotBartyIIQuote:Stonexjim
I literally here week on week from one or more guests on the Fezcast (a podcast I really enjoy listening to by the way) that they didn’t watch it (the men’s or women’s game) but saw the highlights or read about it in the media. Does that mean their points are also invalid?
This gives me an opportunity to make a desperate plea on behalf of us on the Fezcast, because despite appreciating the positivity here this is actually a bit of a problem! Despite having a core of 4 or 5 of us, with the Fezcast being an amateur 'spare time' thing, the challenge of squeezing in recording, editing and publishing something in the couple of days between the weekend's matches and when the show goes out often means that we have to just go with whoever is available, regardless of how much of the action they've actually seen. I for example am essentially "home only" as a season ticket and a TNT subscription doesn't stack up, and life has thrown several curveballs which means I've been pretty limited in being available for the show anyway.
There's a broadly open door for anyone who'd be interested in getting involved if you can give up an evening hour every week or two, and especially if you are or knows anyone who is interested in the media and editing side of things (maybe you have a young relative doing media studies and needs something for their portfolio?). Its a fair bit of effort just to get it to the haphazard standard we have now, so appreciate everyone who gets some form of enjoyment out of it and keeps us going.
A very fair and measured response. I may well take you up on that at some point. I’m guessing for a Wednesday release you record on Sunday/monday?
Quote:Darraghgirl
Please guys keep it civil.
Personal attacks will not be tolerated on this message board - my magic fairy wand will send them to oblivion if this continues
We won, we got 5 points away at Castle Grim
Let's take the positives
Go Sarries
the last 4 weeks on this board have made it feel like Christmas in the 70’s for me. all the bickering and back biting plus the thinly veiled insults and passive aggressive comments sound like my Uncle David and Auntie Lucy circa boxing day 1978!
the enemy and I made it to 2 home games in December with lots of travelling and we lost ( some would say threw away ) them both but my word i loved watching the games and hearing all the support at Stonex.
Someone has already said it on here, the highs and lows have been great. I recall the Clermont fans abusing us as we left Murrayfield very well, my french is good enough to have been able to reply politely and make a friend.
I am all for discussion and honest critique however the personal attacks and comments are unfair and unwanted.
We are Sarries! We all love Sarries don’t we?
have a robust and cogent discussion but try to be considerate to each other or else my Nan will intervene as she did with David and Lucy and none of us want that, believe me.
Darraghgi thank you for the admin work too.
Quote:Stonexjim
A very fair and measured response. I may well take you up on that at some point. I’m guessing for a Wednesday release you record on Sunday/monday?
Monday evenings is the default, 7ish.
Holy crap..... i have yet to watch the game and or the highlight but we need a bit of grounding here.
even with the relegation and covid we have been in the mix for the last 15 years and missing top 4 just a few times we will have dips and ebbs like this... there maybe some time where coaching and older players may need cleaning out but imagine a Glous fan.. we are still unbelievably lucky displite the continuous money worries that this league face esp us
if not for all this investment we would not have a club to support. criticism is fine but lets all have a step back here.
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
even with the relegation and covid we have been in the mix for the last 15 years and missing top 4 just a few times we will have dips and ebbs like this... there maybe some time where coaching and older players may need cleaning out but imagine a Glous fan.. we are still unbelievably lucky displite the continuous money worries that this league face esp us
if not for all this investment we would not have a club to support. criticism is fine but lets all have a step back here.
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Was at the match but behind posts in the stand so not an ideal view but I am concerned about Max. Everything else was fine .
Quote:As good a rugby player Max is, his pace has taken a battering since his injury - he got skinned by their hooker yesterdaywarwick5763
Was at the match but behind posts in the stand so not an ideal view but I am concerned about Max. Everything else was fine .
MarlCol and warwick, unfortunately I must agree re. Max. I have always been a huge fan of his since his academy days, but he is simply not fast enough now to be our starting winger. Wingers need speed - simples, and he is nowhere near quick enough now. I feel Earl, little Theo and maybe even Andy Oc would rival/outpace Malins which is concerning.
Fingers x'd he gets his mojo back quickly, there was a period a few seasons back when he was excellent for us.
Fingers x'd he gets his mojo back quickly, there was a period a few seasons back when he was excellent for us.
We'll always have [youtu.be] (and I really hope that like a lot of injuries like his it's the season after the season after that he's back at full fitness)
Quote:Nosher1979
I recall the Clermont fans abusing us as we left Murrayfield very well, my french is good enough to have been able to reply politely and make a friend.
Good grief, really? I know it was a long time ago but I really hope that the abuse was tongue-in-cheek. I've always loved Clermont fans' enthusiasm and friendliness (despite them making Stade Marcel Michelin probably the most intimidating place in world rugby - but even there I've always had very friendly one-to-one interactions).
My abiding memory of the Clermont fans in Edinburgh is one of them in the pub who desperately wanted the fez that Mrs. S. was wearing. She was very happy to simply give it to him (it was only one of the freebies that the club gives away from time to time) but he insisted on a swap (would not take no for an answer) and right there in the pub peeled off his ASM t-shirt and handed it to her.
My goodness did that shirt stink! It had to go in a plastic bag for the journey home lest it taint the rest of our baggage, and it still stank after she'd washed it three times so it eventually went in the dustbin!
Happy days! They will come again, of that I have no doubt. I'll be at Leicester next weekend, also at Scotstoun and (even though I now live in the Midlands) at Stonex for the Toulouse and Newcastle games. Keep the faith or you'll have to answer to my wife (and you will NOT come out of that well!).
I'm not worried about Max.
I was a little earlier in the season when he had two very poor performances back-to-back but since then I feel he's steadily improving.
It's entirely possible that after that injury he never regains the speed he had before, we'll just have to see. Even if he doesn't he is still faster now than Goode was in the last decade of his career so it's about how we use him.
I'd play him or Daly at FullBack. I appreciate the desire to get both in the team but once we have more options available one the wing I also like the idea of a bit more pace there.
Our best attacking and support play from the backs this season has come from a small handful of players and Malins and Tompkins are at the forefront. Van-Zyl and Burke feature significantly too.
Of those Malins reads the game best in my view and importantly creates as much as finishes.
Given Dalys last couple of games at Fullback it wouldn't be unreasonable to back Malins there for a couple and see how he does in his "natural" position.
I was a little earlier in the season when he had two very poor performances back-to-back but since then I feel he's steadily improving.
It's entirely possible that after that injury he never regains the speed he had before, we'll just have to see. Even if he doesn't he is still faster now than Goode was in the last decade of his career so it's about how we use him.
I'd play him or Daly at FullBack. I appreciate the desire to get both in the team but once we have more options available one the wing I also like the idea of a bit more pace there.
Our best attacking and support play from the backs this season has come from a small handful of players and Malins and Tompkins are at the forefront. Van-Zyl and Burke feature significantly too.
Of those Malins reads the game best in my view and importantly creates as much as finishes.
Given Dalys last couple of games at Fullback it wouldn't be unreasonable to back Malins there for a couple and see how he does in his "natural" position.
Agree Paul, I’d also like to see him at 15 without Faz at 12 so he can operate as the second playmaker (with either Faz or Burke at 10, I don’t mind). The difficulties under the high ball v Quins gives me food for thought but I think he can work that out. From what I can see we are starting to move the ball to the edges quicker than in previous seasons and if that’s the case then you need a quick winger to take advantage of the space and Max doesn’t have that ability. W enjustbkeed to get and keep our other wingers fit.
Quote:TommyKentish
From what I can see we are starting to move the ball to the edges quicker than in previous seasons and if that’s the case then you need a quick winger to take advantage of the space and Max doesn’t have that ability. We just need to get and keep our other wingers fit.
I think that's definitely part of it TommyKentish. Farrell has put in a couple of incredible flat wide passes this season and has likewise used the cross-field kick to great impact in a few games, Sale in particular. If that continues to be the main part of how we're playing I'd go with him at 10, Daly at FullBack plus two quicker wings.
If we want to exploit the quicker possession we have generated this season fully then I'd prefer Burke who is happy to play flat to and take on the gainline and if he breaks it he has the speed and vision to use support. Equally that suits Malins coming from deep and cutting lines.
For me those are two distinct combinations and Bracken might suit the Farrell/Daly combo better as his speed will keep the defence honest and give Farrell time.
Quote:TommyKentish
Not to mention J Bracken who is probably the best ball in hand!
Rewatched the Bears game last night.
I'd forgotten how good he was in that one. Incredible defence and sharp in attack and the air.
We really do have some exceptional backs coming through.
Check out his finish v Quins in the prem cup last season too, not afraid to run people over physically despite his size.
I haven't caught any of the PRC games other than as highlights.
I think I'd be happy with any of Elliott, J Bracken or Caluori on the wings. All raw and will make mistakes but all great prospects. Add to that Segun who is a top player but probably needs to be managed quite carefully and we've good options.
I think I'd be happy with any of Elliott, J Bracken or Caluori on the wings. All raw and will make mistakes but all great prospects. Add to that Segun who is a top player but probably needs to be managed quite carefully and we've good options.
I could see Elliott as a 15, looks like he has a bit of playmaking ability having played across the backline when he was younger. Then Bracken has said he prefers 15 too. Also Hall looks like he can play back there too and has a massive boot which helps, exciting options!
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- Exeter Chiefs v Saracens Premiership Report
- EXETER v SARACENS: please post match related content here
- SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST
Saracens latest threads
- END OF SEASON POLL AT LAST
- End of Season Poll (finally) #1
- Writing articles for the Sarries page
- More Game Time
- PensionBee Now main shirt sponsor?
- 26/27 fixtures
- PWR Semi Final and Final 2025-26 Report
- Champions Cup group 26/27
- New photo for the Sarries message board
- Saracens Women v Ealing Trailfinders PWR Final Report