TIGERS V SARRIES: A REFLECTION


By Innings
January 8 2024

I have tried to write this as a match report, but that didn’t work.  Readers are already aware of the result, many have watched the match and many more have read reports in the Press and social media.  In addition, I found the game so poor to watch that I cannot bring myself to re-watch it, nor to cudgel my memory for recall of something so forgettable.  Consequently, I propose to write instead a sharing of thoughts about what this game indicated about the current state of affairs at two clubs, and what it could portend for the remainder of this season.

Let me begin with a few thoughts about the game.  This game marks the moment when every game is played with an eye on the end of the season, by the end of the weekend there are now just seven games left to play in the regular series. Two clubs in the bottom half of the Gallagher Premiership table meet in the hope that one or other can generate a win to re-start their faltering campaigns.  Both can see perfectly well that a loss will begin to drag on their hopes of home play-offs, perhaps even with play-off places of any kind imperilled.  They are even beginning to see that despite being giants of the domestic game they are actually struggling to ensure a place in next year’s Champions’ Cup, in whatever stupid format the organisers of that dogs’ dinner think will cash in best.  So, immediate pressure to generate improvements.

Both sides are desperate for a win, both urgently need to generate impetus, and both have injury lists that can only complicate matters.  Therefore, the game can be guaranteed to create tensions, commitment and high points.  Unfortunately, in this case, the tensions and commitment bring with them nerves, jitters and low points

Was this game won by Tigers’ ability to draw at least ten penalties from Sarries’ uncharacteristically poor set-piece and breakdown play?  Was Tigers’ failure to score a much-needed fourth try the result of Sarries’ ability to force Tigers to turn the ball over at least ten times? Was the endless kick tennis the result of both sides being aware that the opponents each had one of the most dangerous turnover jackals currently playing the Gallagher?  Was Sarries’ penalty count or Tigers’ inability to hold onto the ball simply the result of both teams trying so hard that they lost patience, calm and decision-taking?  Being unable to answer these questions leads me to the bigger question: are both Leicester Tiger and Saracens teams coached by coaching groups that have failed to accept that their squads are no longer the forces that they have been?  One fact is undeniable, which is that their aggregate ratio of games lost to games played has reached levels that would have seemed impossible to imagine at the beginning of this season.  A simple composite table explains this graphically.

Season 21/22 Played 48 Lost 10. Loss percentage 21%

Season 22/23 Played 40 Lost 13. Loss percentage 32%

23/24 to date  Played 22 Lost 10.  Loss percentage 45%

I am no gambler, but sometimes it is interesting to see where those who back their judgement with money are placing their bets.  On Saturday morning, Sarries were still odds-on to win the Premiership.  This afternoon, they have gone to almost 2-1 odds, although still favourites to win.  Tigers have drifted in like manner.  Thus, the money says that the weekend was a bad one for both sides’ hopes this season.  Of course, things are tight in every part of the table. Second to sixth are separated by only five points.  The leaders will take points off each other, and both Sarries and Tigers may yet have end-of season surges, as the latter so often do.  However, this weekend saw no excuse of international absences, which have frequently distorted the picture until the last games of the season.  My own view is that both clubs will be scratching their heads this afternoon, knowing that they are no more than single cogs in the machinery that includes five or six others that are perfectly capable of increasing further damage to the season’s hopes, or of finding that expectations on their upstart shoulders so increase their own pressures that they too begin to fall into losing the battles of the top two inches.

It is impossible to know what the two coaching set-ups are thinking, hoping or planning, because both groups are laudably tight-lipped when it comes to discussing players’ futures.  However, it is clear that developments in the competition have not been followed by developments in either squad that would have enabled them to keep up with what is happening elsewhere. One sure thing is that Sarries will be asking why their leadership groups seems to be picking up almost all the cards that have gone in Sarries’ direction this season.  The old military saying ‘Heads off, cabbages on’ should not apply to the old and bold, but it does at the Stonex.

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TIGERS V SARRIES: A REFLECTION
Discussion started by TheSaracens.com , 08/01/2024 16:46
TheSaracens.com
08/01/2024 16:46
Thanks Philip - food for thought as always



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:21:20:55:52 by Darraghgirl.

#wolfpack1
08/01/2024 18:38
A very good summary of the unease we’re feeling..

“Are both Leicester Tiger and Saracens teams coached by coaching groups that have failed to accept that their squads are no longer the forces that they have been?”

This is the question hanging over this season.

McCall referred to a reset. We’ll see who gets new contracts and who doesn’t.

Stopsy
08/01/2024 20:06
Tigers are in a resetting period in my opinion both squad and coaching

The Bard
09/01/2024 18:20
Just like after the last World Cup, it is incredibly difficult for teams like us and Leicester who provide a significant proportion of the players to get a consistent team out on the pitch.
Games like Saturday are always going to be tight, at least we showed good defensive energy and good attacking intent.
But with an underpowered front row and no big ball carrier it is asking an awful lot.
Home game against Exeter is vital, just about all games have knock out status from now on in the league

OldMarovian
09/01/2024 18:26
Quote:
The Bard
Home game against Exeter is vital, just about all games have knock out status from now on in the league

Just like at their peak the penalties they eek out of the opposition through their pack are the foundation of their game.
Can see a very tough day at the office for us. Could be very painful if we play as dull a gameplan as last time.

tigerburnie
10/01/2024 16:39
Sport is cyclical, no-one stays at the top for ever, both teams have taken a dive for different reasons, as has been said after the RFU took all our coaches, Tigers have had to reset again after finding a champion winning team, maybe Sarries are just in decline and haven't found a solution yet. Exeter took a dive and seem to have reset, Bath as well and Northampton seem to be clicking after some changes there. This season the league is far more interesting, all the clubs are having to adjust, lower salary cap, new players fitting in from the sides that went under, I think Tigers current roster of players have a very exciting look to them, young players coming through, some already making the international circus, still getting to know each other on the pitch, but the potential is most encouraging from a Tigers perspective,.Sarries however could be in for a few sticky seasons as some old stalwarts come towards the end of their careers.

The Bard
10/01/2024 19:10
Bath appeared to have a good squad last year but were terrible. But whereas everyone else seemed to be trimming players, they somehow seem to have got a bigger squad with some top flight players coming in.

Nosher1979
11/01/2024 07:45
Quote:
The Bard
Bath appeared to have a good squad last year but were terrible. But whereas everyone else seemed to be trimming players, they somehow seem to have got a bigger squad with some top flight players coming in.
Cheap pickings from the clubs that went under I believe. They’ve not built that squad, they’ve constructed it and it’s working ( Sarries did it many years ago with the purge) but not through design. A million pound marquee player doesn’t leave a lot for the rest of those talented players so I am surmising they got slightly under their market value to join. It is looking succesful for Bath though.

tigerburnie
11/01/2024 16:40
It is tricky these days, you cannot go for bust buying players, because you will go bust. Tigers paid out on a shopping trip to buy a replacement for Ford when he left, you might have to do the same if Faz does go. We have youngsters coming through at 10, but now are losing our 8, hoping we don't have to buy in a Weise replacement. We have an academy product in the pipeline, but is currently at my old club in Nat 1 so not yet ready for the Premiership.

saracensfan61
11/01/2024 20:53
Sarries definitely reaching an end of an era. Mako, Jamie, Faz, Sean M and Goodey may all be considering retirement. Manu V seemed very promising (an exciting prospect) last season but has dropped off significantly this season, Theo McFarland, Theo Dan and Earl have not had the same impact this year compared to last year (world cup exhaustion probably) and Farrell is nowhere near his best. Worrying times as performances have been very substandard recently

#wolfpack1
14/01/2024 21:44
Quote:
#wolfpack1

“Are both Leicester Tiger and Saracens teams coached by coaching groups that have failed to accept that their squads are no longer the forces that they have been?”

This is the question hanging over this season.

Tigs are in a different place to us, so put them aside. But as for Saracens, we certainly have an answer now.

tigersimon
16/01/2024 06:16
“Are both Leicester Tiger and Saracens teams coached by coaching groups that have failed to accept that their squads are no longer the forces that they have been?”

I don’t necessarily agree that it’s Tigers playing squad that is the issue but think their is an element of Truth for Saracens.

The sad demise of 3 Premiership clubs have left Squads (apart from Newcastle) very evenly balanced and anyone can beat anyone else on their day. All depending on that top 2 inches (are they 5% off?)
The work Sanderson is doing at Sale on the mental skills side of the game is fascinating. Injuries and unavailability due to Internationals are also of course massive factors.

Both clubs were massively impacted by RWC call ups (more so than any other club) and returning players maybe haven’t switched on as much because of Fatigue etc.

Tigers main issue IMHO is that with five departing coaches, the new team hasn’t had the pre season with 2/3rd of the First XV. One of those new coaches didn’t arrive until after the RWC, fortunately Petris stepped in for us.
DMK is trying to do things slightly differently but hasn’t had the time without games every weekend to develop. The massive amount of handling errors shows that passing skills are that 5-10% off! Also Dickens, the attack coach has been absent from the club for several weeks!
It was very interesting hearing Dowson on the Saints Supporters Forum live feed yesterday evening talking about passing skills. How ‘The Barn’ (new indoor High Performance Centre) has given them time out of the elements to look at skills, video, review and practice again!

Yes both squads have players nearing the end of their careers (Vunipola, Youngs etc) and it will be interesting to see if McCall can do a Baxter and reinvent Saracens with a crop of very promising youngsters.
Depending on retention & recruitment (Wiese replacement) I see Tigers Squad in better shape but the question remains are the coaches not good enough or have the squad not had that Quality time to bed in the new ideas?

How all teams come out of the international break is going to be very interesting!

OTsarrie
16/01/2024 09:17
I think you are all being way too negative re squad rebuilding …
If everyone is fit and the senior players suggested do retire ( not Jamie G as he has apparently signed a new England contract ) we would have a starting 23 along these lines next season :

Mawi , George ( Captain ), Riccioni , Itoje , Isiekwe , JMG , Earl , Willis , Van Zyl , Lozowski , Segun , Hartley , Tomkins , Cinti , Daly.

West , Dan , Hoskins , Tizard , Macfarland , Christie , Simpson , Parton.

This assumes no new arrivals are departures , which wont be the case , but I would suggest that we already have a squad for next season that would at least be competitive in the Premiership , if not Europe .

OldMarovian
16/01/2024 10:05
Thats sort of where I am OTsarrie.
Right now I'd expect to lose both JMG and Cinti (would be delighted to be wrong but trying to be realistic) Hoskins has barely played and was either injury cover or a 1 year so I'd hope to see TH recruitment to mirror the rumoured signings at LH. Riccioni is an excellent starter and Clarey a solid option.
If fit we have exceptional options at lock and backrow.
Again, if fit, we have younger options in the backs who have already been in the system for a while.

This season isn't over by any means and from the outside it feels like the biggest issues are mental and to a degree selection (both injury impacted and maybe a slight conservatism re senior players)

I think it's easy to under-estimate just how tough the last four? seasons have been for the whole club.
I also think it's worth keeping in mind the changes for the coaches and long term planning.
I have no especial insight but my understanding was Sanderson was McCalls heir apparent and it feels obvious Farrell and McCall also looked to be a long term plan. Now neither of those things might be the case.
My feeling is we have some of the best coaches in the Premiership. This is our first proper wobble after a hugely difficult but successful period of time.

TOKS description of the pre and post game is very disappointing but also a bit of an anomaly I'd suggest.
I only go to a couple of away games a season but I'm always impressed that win or lose the players do the rounds after. It was remarked on by Chiefs board that after the season opener humping Sarries players spent time thanking the support whilst Chiefs players went off to celebrate their win.
I suspect this is a really bad day at the office but not the new normal.

I guess I'm saying now is when the club needs our support. That doesn't mean we can't be disappointed ofc or critical but equally it means thinking about how this is also hard for the coaches and players.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:16:10:25:37 by OldMarovian.

LutonS
16/01/2024 11:40
Quote:
OldMarovian
I guess I'm saying now is when the club needs our support. That doesn't mean we can't be disappointed ofc or critical but equally it means thinking about how this is also hard for the coaches and players.

100% this

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