Saracens
SARACENS v LEICESTER please add match related content here
By Monaghan Boy
November 2 2023
Finally. Back to winning ways, the men in black return to north London following a remarkably dominant display at Gloucester’s Kingsholm. Key performers Tom Willis and Andy Christie stood out, as they have done for much of the start of the campaign, and will surely look to kick on this weekend.
Also one from three, however, and without a raft of internationals… Leicester Tigers await.
Last season’s fixture was, perhaps, the home team’s most dominant North London performance - the bonus point secured before half time, with tries from Alex Lozowski, Ben Earl, Max Malins and Ivan Van Zyl, in what was an attacking masterclass masterminded by Owen Farrell and Elliott Daly. With limited attacking success in recent weeks, Saracens will look to impress home fans with a return to expansive rugby, exploiting Saturday’s conveniently forecasted break in rain around kick off.
Three of those star names may well return this week, following World Cup duty with England, and, if social media videos are any evidence, then all involved seem raring to feature. New faces Lucio Cinti and Juan Martin Gonzales could make their first appearances, but after a heavy World Cup campaign, with little rotation, are surely in need of rest. In the Tigers camp, fellow Argentinian Julian Montoya, similarly integral to a fatigued Pumas side, could also sit out. Theo Dan and Billy Vunipola both enjoyed only limited game time in France, so could be expected to feature from the off this weekend. An out of form Vunipola may struggle to retake his long held 8 shirt from newcomer Willis this season, the latter perhaps shifting to 6 in the absence of an injured Nick Isiekwe.
Owen Farrell and Ben Earl could be forgiven for exhaustion following their mighty World Cup efforts, but the leadership of either one would be a monumental boost to the Saracens staring XV. Similarly, Elliot Daly, an integral piece of Saracens backline for much of last season, returns to the club with a fortnight’s rest, and could replace stalwart Alex Goode in the 15 shirt following a lacklustre start to the season.
Tigers too could bolster their squad with World Cup returnees. Locks Chessum and Martin rotated in the closing weeks of the tournament, so could feature in a heavy Tigers pack. Equally, Dan Cole’s week on the bench could see him straight back in a green and red jersey, taking the place of Joe Heyes, while Freddie Steward finds competition from Mike Brown for a second season. Ex-Worcesterman Jamie Shillcock has been given the keys at 10 over the past fortnight, and, assuming the continued absence of World Cup Champion Handre Pollard, will be looking to steer the Leicester outfit to back-to-back wins on the road.
Likewise, ex-Saracen Tom Whiteley could make a third successive start, as they await the return of Ben Youngs and Jack Van Poortvliet from international duty and injury respectively. Regardless of selection and performance, both sides will be eager to find a winning habit after shaky opening fortnights.
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StumbleuponSARACENS v LEICESTER please add match related content here
Discussion started by TheSaracens.com , 02/11/2023 17:06
TheSaracens.com
02/11/2023 17:06
02/11/2023 17:06
Apologies for the late publication of the preview - we eds do have a life as well! Thanks James for another excellent preview
Thread merged with earlier thread about team selection for the sake of clarity
Glos match report should be coming soon - delayed due to ill health of metch reporter
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:15:17:17:49 by Darraghgirl.
Thread merged with earlier thread about team selection for the sake of clarity
Glos match report should be coming soon - delayed due to ill health of metch reporter
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:15:17:17:49 by Darraghgirl.
Thoughts on the below....
1. Eroni
2. Dan
3. Marco R
4. Tiz
5. Hunter Hill (/Nick I if back to fitness)
6. Tom Willis
7. Andy C
8. Billy V
9. Ivan
10. Manu (Feel like Faz needs a weekends rest)
11. Daly
12. Nick T
13. Loz.
14. Lewi
15. Goode
16. Hadfield / Woolf
17. Mako
18. Judge
19. Theo Mac / Callum HH
20. Gonzalez
21. Simpson (Please please not Davies)
22. Cinti
23. Matiland
1. Eroni
2. Dan
3. Marco R
4. Tiz
5. Hunter Hill (/Nick I if back to fitness)
6. Tom Willis
7. Andy C
8. Billy V
9. Ivan
10. Manu (Feel like Faz needs a weekends rest)
11. Daly
12. Nick T
13. Loz.
14. Lewi
15. Goode
16. Hadfield / Woolf
17. Mako
18. Judge
19. Theo Mac / Callum HH
20. Gonzalez
21. Simpson (Please please not Davies)
22. Cinti
23. Matiland
Personally, I thought Aled was one of our best players last week, and I think he’s definitely a confidence player. If he’s alongside Faz, I’d be far more comfortable.
I’d consider resting Nick T perhaps, especially if Faz is back to help guide Hartley.
I’d also say Clarey has been our best tighthead this season so far, so would like to see him get a start post injury.
I’d consider resting Nick T perhaps, especially if Faz is back to help guide Hartley.
I’d also say Clarey has been our best tighthead this season so far, so would like to see him get a start post injury.
For whatever reason the tide turned at scrum time in the second half last Friday, coinciding with Clarey coming on
I doubt the two Argentinians will feature this week. They've both played a lot in the last couple of months and will need time to learn Sarries tactics and calls.
I think after the Bath match we will see a strong team. I think Owen will want to play. We won't see the Argentinians; as Roger said, too soon. I think Billy and Theo will play, possibly Elliot, but Jamie and Maro should be forcibly escorted up to the stand.
Agree with much of the above.
Obviously the coaches and players will decide which returning players will come straight back and it would be good to put out a strong team after the loss at home to Bath. I think both McFarland and Isiewkwe (failed HIA) are still unavailable but I'm not positive.
My feeling is that since the horrendous opening game away to Chiefs the team have been steadily improving. The huge take-away from that game was don't kick long to a team who want to counter-attack and have very fast, steppy runners. It's not a lesson we learnt for Bath but against Glaws it was better. I'm much happier with a kick to compete game but there must be a reason we're not doing that?
It's too early in the season to judge the new players but I felt Hadfield had a great game against Glaws after his start against Bath. As others said above Clarey coming on seemed to have a big impact at scrum time too. Davies has had a mixed bag but was excellent against Glaws in defence especially (as was Goode) for this game I'd be happy with him on the bench.
Unless T Willis wants/needs a break I wouldn't move him from 8. Billy on the bench for me and lets see the sort of performance he couldn't deliver at the RWC before he walks back into the starting team.
Mawi, Dan, Riccioni, CH-H, Tizard, Christie, Knight, T Willis, IVZ, Farrell(c) Lewington, Tompkins, Lozo, Daly, Goode.
West, Hadfield, Clarey, Pearce-Paul, Billy, Davies, Hartley, Maitland.
Obviously the coaches and players will decide which returning players will come straight back and it would be good to put out a strong team after the loss at home to Bath. I think both McFarland and Isiewkwe (failed HIA) are still unavailable but I'm not positive.
My feeling is that since the horrendous opening game away to Chiefs the team have been steadily improving. The huge take-away from that game was don't kick long to a team who want to counter-attack and have very fast, steppy runners. It's not a lesson we learnt for Bath but against Glaws it was better. I'm much happier with a kick to compete game but there must be a reason we're not doing that?
It's too early in the season to judge the new players but I felt Hadfield had a great game against Glaws after his start against Bath. As others said above Clarey coming on seemed to have a big impact at scrum time too. Davies has had a mixed bag but was excellent against Glaws in defence especially (as was Goode) for this game I'd be happy with him on the bench.
Unless T Willis wants/needs a break I wouldn't move him from 8. Billy on the bench for me and lets see the sort of performance he couldn't deliver at the RWC before he walks back into the starting team.
Mawi, Dan, Riccioni, CH-H, Tizard, Christie, Knight, T Willis, IVZ, Farrell(c) Lewington, Tompkins, Lozo, Daly, Goode.
West, Hadfield, Clarey, Pearce-Paul, Billy, Davies, Hartley, Maitland.
I haven't the faintest idea who will or should or shouldn't be in the 15 / 23!
I've only seen the Bath game which took me back to dark days at Vicarage Road.
I just want the coaches to pick the players who are ready and rest the ones who need a break.
Looking forward to my Saturday!
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
I've only seen the Bath game which took me back to dark days at Vicarage Road.
I just want the coaches to pick the players who are ready and rest the ones who need a break.
Looking forward to my Saturday!
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
For the Tigers a lot will depend on how much has changed with the new coaches taking over, if it is a lot, then the returning internationals just might struggle to fit in as starters so may be on the bench. The Tigers are starting to gel, so I would drip feed in those who are fit and available, I would not go for wholesale changes.
I’d be surprised to see any of Cinti, JMG, Maro, George or Earl involved. Daly and IVZ would be a welcome addition to get the backs moving, as would Faz but I wouldn't be surprised if he needs a rest mentally more than anything.
Saracens Men team to play Leicester Tigers:
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Jamie George
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Maro Itoje
5 Nick Isiekwe
6 Andy Christie
7 Ben Earl
8 Billy Vunipola
9 Aled Davies
10 Owen Farrell (c)
11 Elliot Daly
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Alex Lozowski
14 Sean Maitland
15 Alex Goode
Replacements:
16 Theo Dan
17 Eroni Mawi
18 Alec Clarey
19 Callum Hunter-Hill
20 Hugh Tizard
21 Tom Willis
22 Ivan van Zyl
23 Tom Parton
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:03:12:01:34 by Sarriebone.
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Jamie George
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Maro Itoje
5 Nick Isiekwe
6 Andy Christie
7 Ben Earl
8 Billy Vunipola
9 Aled Davies
10 Owen Farrell (c)
11 Elliot Daly
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Alex Lozowski
14 Sean Maitland
15 Alex Goode
Replacements:
16 Theo Dan
17 Eroni Mawi
18 Alec Clarey
19 Callum Hunter-Hill
20 Hugh Tizard
21 Tom Willis
22 Ivan van Zyl
23 Tom Parton
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:03:12:01:34 by Sarriebone.
About as strong as it gets. Surprised Jamie, ben and Maro haven't been given a rest, but I'm sure they're being managed properly going forwards
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:03:12:05:06 by Sarriebone.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:03:12:05:06 by Sarriebone.
Much stronger team than I was expecting. Looking forward to the game a lot now!
I was not expecting that! I suppose a bit of a must win even this early on, especially with two away fixtures coming up.
Worth noting that Ampthill's lineup this week contains no less than 10 saracens players too, including the likes of Manu Vunipola, Olly Hartley, Ollie Stonham and Samson Adejimi who have been heavily involved up until now. Making much more use of our link with them and hopefully means the wider squad are getting plenty of game time
Saracens v Leicester Tigers
Referee: Craig Maxwell-Keys
ARs: Joe James & Peter Allan
TMO: Rowan Kitt
Referee: Craig Maxwell-Keys
ARs: Joe James & Peter Allan
TMO: Rowan Kitt
To be expected for a home match, and I would expect some rotation next week away to Newcastle.
We’re probably only missing Theo M, JMG and Cinti from our first choice 23.
Hopefully 5 points, but I imagine they’ll be some rust for the returning players to shake off too.
We’re probably only missing Theo M, JMG and Cinti from our first choice 23.
Hopefully 5 points, but I imagine they’ll be some rust for the returning players to shake off too.
Kata also featured in the RWC. I’ll be interested to see how we go against such a strong selection.
So Nick Isiekwe obviously didn’t fail an HIA last Friday.
I didn’t hear it but apparently there was a bit about his surgery on radio 4 this week
I didn’t hear it but apparently there was a bit about his surgery on radio 4 this week
ive not been allowed to go 
home alone with boy.... cheer for me
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
home alone with boy.... cheer for meNinjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Quote:Stopsy
Kata also featured in the RWC. I’ll be interested to see how we go against such a strong selection.
Yes, but on the bench so might not take part, or for long ?
Quote:The Bard
So Nick Isiekwe obviously didn’t fail an HIA last Friday.
I didn’t hear it but apparently there was a bit about his surgery on radio 4 this week
Caught the end of it. Apparently it was quite random that he ended up at the hospital pioneering the treatment he had. If he’d gone somewhere else he would have had a heart stent which would have finished his career.
Surprised but very happy with that squad. Right now I hope they were selected based on having their swimming badges 
but the forecast suggests we might get a little window to play some rugby tomorrow and lets hope for some fireworks on the field as well as off it after!
A bit like last week the opposition have probably gone weaker than we might have expected but I'm sure there will be no complacency about the threat Tigers can offer or the result. Shillcock was excellent last week, arguably the better 10 on the field (which given the other was Baths £1M?-man Finn Russell is quite an eye-opener) in poor conditions he had them playing in the right areas of the field and kicked brilliantly. An interesting head-to-head from the bench too with returning International Theo Dan up against the very good Nic Dolly who excepting injury could quite possibly have been in contention for the RWC squad.
Expecting big performances from the Vunipolae as they have been backed with the starts. Great bench to come on and make an impact. Time to get the winning show back on the road at home.
An incredible story and brilliant for Isiekwe, huge credit to his surgeon and ofc great that we get to continue to see him at Sarries.
but the forecast suggests we might get a little window to play some rugby tomorrow and lets hope for some fireworks on the field as well as off it after!
A bit like last week the opposition have probably gone weaker than we might have expected but I'm sure there will be no complacency about the threat Tigers can offer or the result. Shillcock was excellent last week, arguably the better 10 on the field (which given the other was Baths £1M?-man Finn Russell is quite an eye-opener) in poor conditions he had them playing in the right areas of the field and kicked brilliantly. An interesting head-to-head from the bench too with returning International Theo Dan up against the very good Nic Dolly who excepting injury could quite possibly have been in contention for the RWC squad.
Expecting big performances from the Vunipolae as they have been backed with the starts. Great bench to come on and make an impact. Time to get the winning show back on the road at home.
Quote:Duncan96
Apparently it was quite random that he ended up at the hospital pioneering the treatment he had. If he’d gone somewhere else he would have had a heart stent which would have finished his career.
An incredible story and brilliant for Isiekwe, huge credit to his surgeon and ofc great that we get to continue to see him at Sarries.
Unlike most on our board I think we can beat you, we might not, but I am an optimist and always hopeful, not our strongest side perhaps, but no-one pulls on the jersey unless they are worthy.
That's the spirit TB. I expect nothing less than Tigers to come down with the intention of an "upset"
Hopefully we have a great game (although not too great for the visitors!)
Interested where you see JMG and Cinti in first choice 23 Dolph? Agree about McFarland.
Hopefully we have a great game (although not too great for the visitors!)
Interested where you see JMG and Cinti in first choice 23 Dolph? Agree about McFarland.
OM - tough calls but I’d have Theo for Christie and JMG for CHH, but basing that on last years form so could easily change. Cinti for Parton or starting in place of Maitland I’d be more confident on.
Quote:Duncan96Quote:The Bard
So Nick Isiekwe obviously didn’t fail an HIA last Friday.
I didn’t hear it but apparently there was a bit about his surgery on radio 4 this week
Caught the end of it. Apparently it was quite random that he ended up at the hospital pioneering the treatment he had. If he’d gone somewhere else he would have had a heart stent which would have finished his career.
I missed it live but caught up on i-player. To be honest it was more about the innovative surgery than Nick himself, but obviously he's a very notable example of the success of an approach that could benefit many more people if more surgeons and hospitals adopted it.
On paper that is a ludicrously strong 23 containing as it does, what 18 internationals ( incl 6 Lions) and a full hand of capped players in the starting 15? If they click and remain fit then the destination of the title is a done deal, although given the truncated nature of the season giving the rest of us a 10 point start is very sporting ! BUT, as I said in a post last year it does seem that the sands of time might be running out for some of your golden generation. Goode, Maitland, and the Vunipolae look like their form might be on that tricky downward slope, and whilst I understand that George will want to play with his mates it seems slightly odd given his minutes during the RWC that he has not stood aside for Dan.
There should be only one side in it this afternoon but given how bloodyminded Tigers are these days nothing can be taken for granted. It should make interesting watching.
There should be only one side in it this afternoon but given how bloodyminded Tigers are these days nothing can be taken for granted. It should make interesting watching.
Interesting points Debenair.
I believe both Vunipolae had a +1 clause that they exercised and the club accepted, Maitland was offered an additional year and Goode two. No one can fight the march of time but I think the club has done pretty well in bringing in players to replace those. T Willis was the clubs big signing for this season and already looks to the Manor born. LH and Utility back(s) also have good cover although getting players to match any of those in their prime would obviously be difficult.
My feeling (hope) is those mentioned will increasingly be part of a strong bench this season rather than starters. Injuries and International call-ups (the down side of all those Internationals) mean that theoretically those more senior players will be very useful as long as they still play with some of their historical form. I guess we'll see. One thing that seems clear is a big chunk of Salary Cap will be freed next season and I'm intrigued as to what players might join (and hopeful it won't just mean all that money is spent increasing the salaries of current players)
I've said on your forum several times I'm interested/excited by what Baxter is doing at Chiefs and whilst I think retaining core players and coaches to provide stability and continuity is a key part of success (as you showed in your Premiership and the double winning period) there is no doubt there's an attraction in ripping it all down and starting again.
Chiefs look great this season and whilst they'll find it tougher as they play increasingly full opposition teams you must be delighted with how the future looks.
I believe both Vunipolae had a +1 clause that they exercised and the club accepted, Maitland was offered an additional year and Goode two. No one can fight the march of time but I think the club has done pretty well in bringing in players to replace those. T Willis was the clubs big signing for this season and already looks to the Manor born. LH and Utility back(s) also have good cover although getting players to match any of those in their prime would obviously be difficult.
My feeling (hope) is those mentioned will increasingly be part of a strong bench this season rather than starters. Injuries and International call-ups (the down side of all those Internationals) mean that theoretically those more senior players will be very useful as long as they still play with some of their historical form. I guess we'll see. One thing that seems clear is a big chunk of Salary Cap will be freed next season and I'm intrigued as to what players might join (and hopeful it won't just mean all that money is spent increasing the salaries of current players)
I've said on your forum several times I'm interested/excited by what Baxter is doing at Chiefs and whilst I think retaining core players and coaches to provide stability and continuity is a key part of success (as you showed in your Premiership and the double winning period) there is no doubt there's an attraction in ripping it all down and starting again.
Chiefs look great this season and whilst they'll find it tougher as they play increasingly full opposition teams you must be delighted with how the future looks.
As usual OM a very thoughtful post.
I was pretty sanguine about this season but have been delighted at performances so far, although gutted by the horrid injury to Hodge at Quins , where nothing quite went right. The really pleasing thing apart from the emotional energy snap and snarl about the team, is the sense of balance you feel. It is a quality in my opinion usually impossible to achieve by choice, but often resulting from serendipity. Long may it continue. Another real test today but I have a quiet confidence about our mishmash of one cap wonders, misfits, castoffs and kids!
I was pretty sanguine about this season but have been delighted at performances so far, although gutted by the horrid injury to Hodge at Quins , where nothing quite went right. The really pleasing thing apart from the emotional energy snap and snarl about the team, is the sense of balance you feel. It is a quality in my opinion usually impossible to achieve by choice, but often resulting from serendipity. Long may it continue. Another real test today but I have a quiet confidence about our mishmash of one cap wonders, misfits, castoffs and kids!
Quote:Old Marovian
to the Manor born.[email][/email]
I did enjoy this. The original wording is "Although I am a native here, and to the manner born". (King Lear, Act iv Scene 1) 'To the Manor born' was the pun title of the wonderful Penelope Keith series on TV. However, Shakespeare was perfectly capable of introducing puns into his plays, so it may be that his was the derivative and yours a reference to an older usage of the pronounced word.
Innings
Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.
Congratulations Saracens, very well played, there was a lot to admire about your club today not least the lack of over celebrating
That was a decent day at the office with 4 tries all scored by forwards reflecting our edge up front. Leicester’s 2 tries were both scored by backs and given their contribution to a hard fought game I thought the final score line was about right. Sarries definitely left some points out there but for a first run out together this season that is not surprising. Maro really was at his destructive best and deserved MoTM award. We have now reached the heady heights of 7th in the table.
Incredible from Maro today, back to his absolute best.
But surely the big highlight was having Dolly and Parton on the pitch at the same time?
But surely the big highlight was having Dolly and Parton on the pitch at the same time?
Fantastic performance, although I thought we fizzled out a little in the second half. Individually, Maro was incredible and was rightly deserving of MOTM, and Big Nick was exceptional in the lineout.
Again, I thought Aled was exceptional. Every box kick was on the money, and I'd even say our tempo suffered when he went off. Daly looked class in the first half, but we didn't seem to bring him into the game in the second.
Again, I thought Aled was exceptional. Every box kick was on the money, and I'd even say our tempo suffered when he went off. Daly looked class in the first half, but we didn't seem to bring him into the game in the second.
Quote:MonaghanBoy
Fantastic performance, although I thought we fizzled out a little in the second half. Individually, Maro was incredible and was rightly deserving of MOTM, and Big Nick was exceptional in the lineout.
Again, I thought Aled was exceptional. Every box kick was on the money, and I'd even say our tempo suffered when he went off. Daly looked class in the first half, but we didn't seem to bring him into the game in the second.
Agree with all of that, plus a big shout out to Christie and our own bomb squad who made a difference to the scrum when they came on. Hope Eroni is ok, looked like an arm or rib injury (he was holding his arm to his rib, so who knows?!), I think he deserves to start over Mako at the moment (if fit).
I definitely thought we made hard work of that. Our pack and Maro and Christie in particular were magnificent. We completely destroyed their line out. I thought Davies also had a good game. Somehow though, other than a fantastic try in the first half our attack failed to fire. I do get really frustrated by the attempted grubbers and chips over the top, which, without exception turned over possession yesterday when a little more patience may have led to gaps opening up. Sorry to say that Farrell gave away both Leicester tries; the first a complete gift from a grubber in our own half, the second as a result of a rather embarrassing fend when he went too high in the tackle.
+1 JimG. Glad someone else watched the same game as me.
On the positive side it's a desperately needed 5 points, the result was never in doubt (as it shouldn't have been given the two contrasting sides) and hopefully Mawi is ok and we picked up no injuries.
A number of the pack had exceptional games and we had a glimpse into how good this team could be. As mentioned Maro looked incredible and how Sarries took Tigers apart at lineout was delicious (imagine McFarland competing too) it also felt like we kept hold of the ball more too. Billy had an ok game and I hope he rediscovers his form of last season.
Agree with JimG that the attack stuttered and whilst you often see that when reintegrating players I had hoped with this core group so familiar with each other it might look more fluid but that's something that will surely come.
We have an obvious issue at scrum time and dependant on injuries an obvious solution. Performance before reputation and the change with a sub was very obvious.
A short kicking game is excellent used as part of an attacking plan or in ideal circumstances but not deployed (what felt like) almost continuously. Feels like Borthwick has taught Farrell some bad habits!
Speaking of which not a good game by him. Would be interesting to see the comments had that been Manu in that full squad. Responsible for both of their trys and wasteful of some of our better possession. I'm not sure who in the squad gives him a rocket but someone needs to after that performance.
The win was great. Some of the potential shown was exceptional. Still lots of work to do and I'd guess a fair few players will need a rest now.
That first try was a scintillating example of what this team can do at their best. Play at tempo, keep the ball, great support lines and skills, a real joy to watch. I'd love them to embrace that style more as they did at the end of last season.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:05:10:21:54 by OldMarovian.
On the positive side it's a desperately needed 5 points, the result was never in doubt (as it shouldn't have been given the two contrasting sides) and hopefully Mawi is ok and we picked up no injuries.
A number of the pack had exceptional games and we had a glimpse into how good this team could be. As mentioned Maro looked incredible and how Sarries took Tigers apart at lineout was delicious (imagine McFarland competing too) it also felt like we kept hold of the ball more too. Billy had an ok game and I hope he rediscovers his form of last season.
Agree with JimG that the attack stuttered and whilst you often see that when reintegrating players I had hoped with this core group so familiar with each other it might look more fluid but that's something that will surely come.
We have an obvious issue at scrum time and dependant on injuries an obvious solution. Performance before reputation and the change with a sub was very obvious.
A short kicking game is excellent used as part of an attacking plan or in ideal circumstances but not deployed (what felt like) almost continuously. Feels like Borthwick has taught Farrell some bad habits!
Speaking of which not a good game by him. Would be interesting to see the comments had that been Manu in that full squad. Responsible for both of their trys and wasteful of some of our better possession. I'm not sure who in the squad gives him a rocket but someone needs to after that performance.
The win was great. Some of the potential shown was exceptional. Still lots of work to do and I'd guess a fair few players will need a rest now.
That first try was a scintillating example of what this team can do at their best. Play at tempo, keep the ball, great support lines and skills, a real joy to watch. I'd love them to embrace that style more as they did at the end of last season.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:05:10:21:54 by OldMarovian.
[quote OldMarovian]
Speaking of which not a good game by him. Would be interesting to see the comments had that been Manu in that full squad. Responsible for both of their trys and wasteful of some of our better possession. I'm not sure who in the squad gives him a rocket but someone needs to after that performance.
I very much doubt anyone will need to give him a rocket (although I'd pay good money to watch you try OM). He will know it wasn't his finest day at the office. He would also probably tell you it was the execution that was at fault rather than the tactic.
Speaking of which not a good game by him. Would be interesting to see the comments had that been Manu in that full squad. Responsible for both of their trys and wasteful of some of our better possession. I'm not sure who in the squad gives him a rocket but someone needs to after that performance.
I very much doubt anyone will need to give him a rocket (although I'd pay good money to watch you try OM). He will know it wasn't his finest day at the office. He would also probably tell you it was the execution that was at fault rather than the tactic.
Fair points Eric although I'd have no issue setting Farrell right ... from another borough, in a very quiet whisper whilst saying "nothing" when he asked "what was that?"
We've seen better performances but it always felt like we were comfortable, but not rampant as some expected given the teams selected. However, McCall made a good point - "They haven't been here, they've been training with a different team, a different system", so as a first run out of their league season together, playing a different game plan to the one they've been used to for the past 3 months, I think it was pretty good.
Quote:Innings
I did enjoy this. The original wording is "Although I am a native here, and to the manner born". (King Lear, Act iv Scene 1) 'To the Manor born' was the pun title of the wonderful Penelope Keith series on TV. However, Shakespeare was perfectly capable of introducing puns into his plays, so it may be that his was the derivative and yours a reference to an older usage of the pronounced word.
You learn something new everyday! I was neither familiar with the original wording or realised that the comedy title was a play on words.
I could not quite see why Tigers persisted with a kicking game that produced so many line-outs, which were so clearly the weakest part of their game. Losing three own line-outs within ten metres of the opposition line was absolutely not what Tigers' strength are supposed to deliver. It suggested that the new coaching staff have a lot to do in the re-building of the traditional platform.
Innings
Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.
Innings
Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.
The lineout has been pretty good up until yesterday when it was appalling. We also persisted with kicking the ball away badly, the number of east marks was a sign and your shielding of the catcher where a kick was contestable was very effective
It’s as Roger says, Saracens were always comfortable. Tigers failure to take the kickable points in the first half and turn round at 14-9 rather than 14-3 made it more so. Disappointing after Shilcocks success with the boot the previous week.
Then once the TBP was secured, Farrell could take the Penalty kicks and keep a comfortable lead!
Then once the TBP was secured, Farrell could take the Penalty kicks and keep a comfortable lead!
Quote:OldMarovian
Agree with JimG that the attack stuttered and whilst you often see that when reintegrating players I had hoped with this core group so familiar with each other it might look more fluid but that's something that will surely come.
We have an obvious issue at scrum time and dependant on injuries an obvious solution. Performance before reputation and the change with a sub was very obvious.
A short kicking game is excellent used as part of an attacking plan or in ideal circumstances but not deployed (what felt like) almost continuously. Feels like Borthwick has taught Farrell some bad habits!
Speaking of which not a good game by him. Would be interesting to see the comments had that been Manu in that full squad. Responsible for both of their trys and wasteful of some of our better possession. I'm not sure who in the squad gives him a rocket but someone needs to after that performance
I think the kicking game was a result of a few things. Firstly the cohesion wasn’t there, as has been pointed out a lot, for example it looked like Loz in particular was out of sync with the rest a few times, totally understandable. Secondly the weather turned, we played some nice stuff beforehand. Thirdly the Tigers line speed was impressive and didn’t let up after we scored the 4th and our intensity dropped.
While Faz had a few bad moments I’m happy to give him a break. He looked a bit knackered to me in the second half after the mental toll of captaining England in a World Cup and the physical toll of playing that South Africa team with a short turnaround after Fiji, the a short turnaround for Argentina. On that point, I’m surprised at some of the subs- Earl and Faz off instead of Goode and Christie when we were all but home and dry.
The reason Earl, Faz and Maro stayed on is that they are all on holiday this week. Therefore resting Christie, Nick I, etc for next week against falcons. Made sense to keep them on given they will have a full weeks rest.
Not sure sure on Daly, Theo and Billy but think they will all feature against falcons!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:05:20:59:42 by jimfitz12.
Not sure sure on Daly, Theo and Billy but think they will all feature against falcons!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:05:20:59:42 by jimfitz12.
Pretty much agree with that TK. I'll watch again this evening I suspect my view is too harsh.
Tbh I expected a real statement performance given the strength of the team put out and whilst it was very good I think it missed that.
Having said that all the stuff re the players coming back, some fatigue etc is right and there were more than enough signs of great things to come.
Interesting jimfitz any news on Mawi? he didn't look good when he came off.
Tbh I expected a real statement performance given the strength of the team put out and whilst it was very good I think it missed that.
Having said that all the stuff re the players coming back, some fatigue etc is right and there were more than enough signs of great things to come.
Interesting jimfitz any news on Mawi? he didn't look good when he came off.
Better than it felt live watching it on TV. Still feel quite a few chances left out there but lots to be positive about. I'm interested to see if going so aggressive at the lineout was a one off for this game or is something we will actively target?
A good (funny) and bad moment I only caught on watching the game back. Farrell calling for a pass from Kata when behind him and getting it they looked to have a little laugh about it afterwards.
Far less funny is it looked a lot like a Dan Kelly cheap shot knocks Mawi out in the lead up to Shillcocks try. Mawi part of the attempted tackle on Kata but another player completes it. Mawi is beyond the ball and Kelly drops onto him with his shoulder/elbow looking to make contact. When he came off the issue didn't seem to be head but he lay so still for a good couple of minutes. Not good.
A good (funny) and bad moment I only caught on watching the game back. Farrell calling for a pass from Kata when behind him and getting it
they looked to have a little laugh about it afterwards.
Far less funny is it looked a lot like a Dan Kelly cheap shot knocks Mawi out in the lead up to Shillcocks try. Mawi part of the attempted tackle on Kata but another player completes it. Mawi is beyond the ball and Kelly drops onto him with his shoulder/elbow looking to make contact. When he came off the issue didn't seem to be head but he lay so still for a good couple of minutes. Not good.
We went similarly hard on the glos lineout the week before. Given that we have a comparatively 'light' or athletic back 5 it makes sense to target the lineout ball where we can, although it does seem to hurt us a bit in the scrum. Bringing in a more 'tighthead' lock in Tizard certainly felt like it added there. Falcons historically have had a strong lineout, so it'll be interesting to see what we get up to.
And also on what the ref allows. Yesterday Hamish Smailes made competing in the lineout a no-go zone.
Quote:The Bard
And also on what the ref allows. Yesterday Hamish Smailes made competing in the lineout a no-go zone.
Don't get me started. In the Bath match Hamish allowed them to waste upwards of 30 seconds huddling at each line-out, yet gave Exeter the hurry up and threat of being penalised on one of the first line-outs yesterday. Consisitency.....bah!!
He'd probably had a telling off at the referees' review meeting.. Roger.
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
There was much talk last week about us putting out our returning internationals and Tigers leaving theirs at home for another week. Seeing the final score today against Quins makes me think we made the correct decision.
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