Saracens
HARLEQUINS v SARACENS please post match comments here
By The Saracens
September 28 2023
That was better! Finally a win last weekend and although still things to work on, at least it was entertaining to watch. This weekend sees Sarries take on our London rivals Harlequins. Quins have fared slightly better that Sarries in the Premiership Cup albeit heading in the opposite direction: a good win at home over Hartpury in R1, a draw with Coventry in R2 and defeat to Gloucester in R3. So I assume neither side will be pulling up an trees on Saturday (looks like we’re leaving that to Gloucester & Coventry). Apparently we can’t qualify anyway! TNT Sports (formerly known as BT Sport) are showing the game live on Sunday though.
Like Sarries, Quins seem to be fielding teams with a mixture of young and old, new and established players. The defeat to Gloucester saw Louis Lynagh, Will Joseph, Lovejoy Chawatama & Tyrone Green in the starting 15 and Joe Launchbury on the bench. As the competition has progressed, Sarries seem to have fielded stronger and stronger teams. With just 2 more weekends before the Premiership proper kicks in, I would expect that to continue and by the time Hartpury rock up, we may see an almost full-strength side (World Cup notwithstanding). Which means Sunday could see the likes of Goode, Maitland & (if he’s fit) Christie getting a run out. Hunter Hill & Tizard could make up the locks. I liked the look of Adejimi. Pick 2 props from West/Crean and Hoskins/Judge. I wonder when we’ll see Mako again? Half backs will probably be Davis and I assume Manu will get another start (he kicked well last week). I’d like to see Hartley continue his education at centre maybe alongside Hallett or Jackson? Segun has to go again and I presume Ben Harris will start this week with Tom Parton continuing at full back. But who knows!
There’s nothing riding on this other than pride. For those of you who are going, enjoy yourselves. I’m away now for a while – see you on the other side.
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StumbleuponHARLEQUINS v SARACENS please post match comments here
Discussion started by TheSaracens.com , 28/09/2023 18:53
TheSaracens.com
28/09/2023 18:53
28/09/2023 18:53
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:20:12:19:37 by Darraghgirl.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:20:12:19:37 by Darraghgirl.
Saracens Men team to play Harlequins:
1 Tom West
2 Tom Woolstencroft
3 Ollie Hoskins
4 Callum Hunter-Hill
5 Nick Isiekwe
6 Ollie Stonham
7 Toby Knight
8 Tom Willis
9 Aled Davies
10 Manu Vunipola
11 Alex Lewington
12 Olly Hartley
13 Alex Lozowski (c)
14 Rotimi Segun
15 Tom Parton
Replacements:
16 Samson Adejimi
17 Sam Crean
18 Christian Judge
19 Alex Wardell
20 Nathan Michelow
21 Gareth Simpson
22 Francis Moore
23 Tobias Elliott
1 Tom West
2 Tom Woolstencroft
3 Ollie Hoskins
4 Callum Hunter-Hill
5 Nick Isiekwe
6 Ollie Stonham
7 Toby Knight
8 Tom Willis
9 Aled Davies
10 Manu Vunipola
11 Alex Lewington
12 Olly Hartley
13 Alex Lozowski (c)
14 Rotimi Segun
15 Tom Parton
Replacements:
16 Samson Adejimi
17 Sam Crean
18 Christian Judge
19 Alex Wardell
20 Nathan Michelow
21 Gareth Simpson
22 Francis Moore
23 Tobias Elliott
Fairly consistent selection over the past few weeks, so i imagine it’ll look similar come the premiership opener. So exciting seeing Tom Willis’ name on the team sheet every week. He was everywhere last time out. Can’t wait to see him feature alongside Earl come the season proper. With Gonzales coming in as well, I do wonder what the plan is for Billy. Have we seen any official confirmation for him next season? Maybe I missed that.
Hopefully Big Hugh didn’t aggravate his injury and his halftime substitution was only precautionary.
Hopefully Big Hugh didn’t aggravate his injury and his halftime substitution was only precautionary.
Quote:MonaghanBoy
Have we seen any official confirmation for him next season? Maybe I missed that.
Contract Lengths in Squad List
Quote:MonaghanBoy
Hopefully Big Hugh didn’t aggravate his injury and his halftime substitution was only precautionary.
Injury Updates
Looking at the Quins team for Saturday I think we might have another tough day at the office
3 tries to the bad after 15 minutes, and to think I nearly went! This competition seems to be great if you’re winning but not so good if you lose your first 2 games, good experience for the lads though. Hang on, we’ve just got one back!
Rough start so far. HT 24-15
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:01:15:17:17 by Sarriebone.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:01:15:17:17 by Sarriebone.
Family are watching next door and there's a lot of squealing, and the odd swear word just now. 
So who are we likely to have back by 14th Oct away to Exeter? Riccioni, Theo M from the World Cup. Goode and Christie possibly but with not many minutes in the legs. Looking at a very tough start to the season by the looks of things.
A strangely optimistic view, but with how poorly we played, the boys did well to finish within a score. If a couple of passes go to hand, the result could’ve been (undeservingly) different.
Individually, I’m growing increasingly concerned about manu. In a game with relative parity in the forwards, it was decided by decision making in the half backs. I thought we looked more confident when loz slotted into 10 a couple of times during the second half. Equally, Simpson improved our decision making considerably. Roti grew into the game, but despite this growing experience, still looked like a newcomer in the first half. Willis continued to impress tho.
Individually, I’m growing increasingly concerned about manu. In a game with relative parity in the forwards, it was decided by decision making in the half backs. I thought we looked more confident when loz slotted into 10 a couple of times during the second half. Equally, Simpson improved our decision making considerably. Roti grew into the game, but despite this growing experience, still looked like a newcomer in the first half. Willis continued to impress tho.
Very fair summary. I thought we got parity up front which given the Quins pack was a decent result but we lost the game in the 9, 10, 12 channel.
Think the main lesson for me is that the two most critical players for Sarries this season will be Owen and Nick T as the understudies are a long way behind. In contrast I think we will have a genuine embarrassment of riches in the back row when everyone returns from RWC!
Think we may struggle down at Sandy Park with probably still 12 away at the RWC. Just Theo and Marco back in time!
Think the main lesson for me is that the two most critical players for Sarries this season will be Owen and Nick T as the understudies are a long way behind. In contrast I think we will have a genuine embarrassment of riches in the back row when everyone returns from RWC!
Think we may struggle down at Sandy Park with probably still 12 away at the RWC. Just Theo and Marco back in time!
Well done Quins.
Good to see Launchbury back playing rugby and I thought Quins starting 9 was fantastic. Evans and Kenningham doing a great job through the game slowing down Sarries ball too.
We played a conservative game plan and I think executed it quite well. As MB says we could have sneaked a draw (even a win) with very few changes and IMO neither result would have been undeserved.
Tbh I was quite encouraged that many of the ways Quins got into the game were through basic Sarries errors (players losing possession in contact, overthrown lineout, no one claiming a high ball, etc) as those are things that can be easily worked on.
Scrum was solid. Lineout a bit of an issue. Kicking game was excellent, Manu in particular with short-kicks behind the defence, excellent up-and-unders for our chasers and I think just the one miss at sticks?
Segun my MotM (think MB watched a different first 40 to me) great on both sides of the ball. Got back (tap-backs or opposition penalties) 5 or so kicks he chased and was brilliant in attack. I'd love to see him used to run lines off Willis. Willis himself looks an incredible signing and continued his impressive start with the club. Lozo one of the best games I've seen although the pass to no one was a shame.
Tbh a daft penalty (warned by the referee) in from of our posts. A poor pass behind for what should have been a run in and a clear that caused a knock-on over the the try line ... it could easily have been different and I can't think of any "close things" for Quins.
I'd like to see Hartley with more time on the ball. He looks like he needs the confidence of that and maybe being given the option of being more than just crash ball? All a learning process though so all good for him and the team.
I've not watched any Chiefs games but they seem to have won their games comfortably so we'll definitely need to be more clinical when we meet.
Good to see Launchbury back playing rugby and I thought Quins starting 9 was fantastic. Evans and Kenningham doing a great job through the game slowing down Sarries ball too.
We played a conservative game plan and I think executed it quite well. As MB says we could have sneaked a draw (even a win) with very few changes and IMO neither result would have been undeserved.
Tbh I was quite encouraged that many of the ways Quins got into the game were through basic Sarries errors (players losing possession in contact, overthrown lineout, no one claiming a high ball, etc) as those are things that can be easily worked on.
Scrum was solid. Lineout a bit of an issue. Kicking game was excellent, Manu in particular with short-kicks behind the defence, excellent up-and-unders for our chasers and I think just the one miss at sticks?
Segun my MotM (think MB watched a different first 40 to me) great on both sides of the ball. Got back (tap-backs or opposition penalties) 5 or so kicks he chased and was brilliant in attack. I'd love to see him used to run lines off Willis. Willis himself looks an incredible signing and continued his impressive start with the club. Lozo one of the best games I've seen although the pass to no one was a shame.
Tbh a daft penalty (warned by the referee) in from of our posts. A poor pass behind for what should have been a run in and a clear that caused a knock-on over the the try line ... it could easily have been different and I can't think of any "close things" for Quins.
I'd like to see Hartley with more time on the ball. He looks like he needs the confidence of that and maybe being given the option of being more than just crash ball? All a learning process though so all good for him and the team.
I've not watched any Chiefs games but they seem to have won their games comfortably so we'll definitely need to be more clinical when we meet.
Quote:OldMarovian
We played a conservative game plan and I think executed it quite well.
We did indeed play very conservatively which I, perhaps unfairly, found disappointing as its not the way to put backsides on seats and we need to do that in these finacially insecure times.
I wonder why though? Chris Ashton said it was because players were unfamiliar with each other. But we've had a whole pre season and, when Quins played the other way, Chris Robshaw said it comes from a mindset drilled into the whole squad at every level.
Lack of fitness to play that way? Perhaps we've been "doing an England" and wearing the players out pre tournament to get an extra spring in the step later on?
Slow ball from the breakdown giving the opposing defence time to organise and come up in our faces?
Who knows. It'll take someone far more knowledgeable than this amateur to say. I normally avoid pre season games because they are no indication of what's to come in my experience. Hope it's the same this season.
On a tangetial point, with 10 teams now, it's really important to get a meaningful 2nd competition for international windows (that backsides on seats issue again) and the pre season nature of the Prem Cup has killed it this year despite the welcome addition of the Championship clubs (who started their pre season to be competitive from the off). It'll be different outside World Cup years when the cup will be mid season but this competition will need some love and attention by clubs (i.e. not just use it as a warm up or a way to keep the squad ticking over until the real thing starts again) for fans to take it seriously, turn up and not complain about the value for money of their season ticket.
Last season we played a much more conservative game away and a more adventurous one at home.
To my, poor, memory we also rarely buckled our swash
with less than a pretty full team so perhaps it's about the amount of experience in the squad?
As good as the squad looks the reality is this is the first season for both those starting props, our 8, 12 and FB and whilst they have had a pre-season together there's nothing like a real game for sharpening players up.
My feeling is each game has seen a positive progression (obviously a strengthening squad plays a role)
As you say Duncan it's entirely possible there's an S&C elements to early PRC performances. Against Quins the scrum was stable but a combination of relatively few player able to put us on the front foot, great spoiling work from Quins flankers and the tempo from 9 probably combined to make our play a bit slower than we'd have liked.
Whilst I sort of agree with you re pre-season games I've enjoyed watching players I hope will the the "Theo Dans" of this season in terms of making impressive next (or even first) steps.
Both Segun and Harris have looked incredible and I hope we'll see them brought into the games more this season. Willis already looks incredible. Couple his ability to consistently break beyond the gainline and IVZs quick accurate service and our excellent open field runners and I'm quite excited about the potential in the new season.
To my, poor, memory we also rarely buckled our swash
with less than a pretty full team so perhaps it's about the amount of experience in the squad?
As good as the squad looks the reality is this is the first season for both those starting props, our 8, 12 and FB and whilst they have had a pre-season together there's nothing like a real game for sharpening players up.
My feeling is each game has seen a positive progression (obviously a strengthening squad plays a role)
As you say Duncan it's entirely possible there's an S&C elements to early PRC performances. Against Quins the scrum was stable but a combination of relatively few player able to put us on the front foot, great spoiling work from Quins flankers and the tempo from 9 probably combined to make our play a bit slower than we'd have liked.
Whilst I sort of agree with you re pre-season games I've enjoyed watching players I hope will the the "Theo Dans" of this season in terms of making impressive next (or even first) steps.
Both Segun and Harris have looked incredible and I hope we'll see them brought into the games more this season. Willis already looks incredible. Couple his ability to consistently break beyond the gainline and IVZs quick accurate service and our excellent open field runners and I'm quite excited about the potential in the new season.
100% agreement about Ben, Roti and Tom Willis. Gareth Simpson also looked like he could bring some fast ball which is promising.
Rather worrying that we haven’t won away since Jan 6. Needs to be put right asap as it’s becoming a bad habit
Quote:The Bard
Rather worrying that we haven’t won away since Jan 6. Needs to be put right asap as it’s becoming a bad habit
Ouch, that's not a good stat!
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