Saracens
BATH PREVIEW. PLEASE PLACE ALL MATCH-RELATED COMMENTS HERE
By The Saracens
May 4 2023
After the pomp and circumstance of the coronation, Saracens look to earn their own Order of the Bath in the last game of the regular season. Sarries are unassailable at the top of the table and will be anxious to avoid injuries and red cards while at the same time building on the second half momentum from the Irish game prior to yet another week off next week in this stop/start season before the big one against Saints. Bath need to better Bristol’s result to claim the final Heineken spot (crazy when you think a couple of weeks ago Brizz were bidding to be semi finalists!), so probably will have more to play for but it doesn’t always work like that.
Bath have had yet another miserable season but over the past few weeks have found a bit of form with wins over Exeter at home and then Gloucester and Quins away which has given them with a shot at Europe’s best next season. The game at StoneX last October was an eye opener for Sarries. Sarries were rather out of sorts and nearly came unstuck against a Bath team who scrapped for everything. Without their captain (and former Sarrie Ben Spencer) Bath almost pulled off a surprise win to end Sarries’ unbeaten start to the season. Ollie Lawrence, recently arrived from Worcester, had a stormer and another former Saracen, Matt Gallagher, also looked good. Saracens’ last visit to The Rec, back in October 2021, saw that remarkable 10 try 17-71 win (including a hat trick for Max Malins). When is clicks it clicks – although it’s been a while since it really did (Exeter on New Year’s Eve maybe?). This would be a good time to get back into top gear.
Things are about to change at Bath with the departure of coach Joe Maddock along with 9 senior players (including D’arcy Rae, Valeriy Morozov and Dave Attwood) also ending their stay at Bath. The Bath squad does have some quality players though most noticeably Ben Spencer (seems like the English version of a typical French scrum half to me). Why this guy keeps getting passed over by England baffles me – he’d be one of the first names in my squad. Apart from the aforementioned Ollie Lawrence (who gave Sarries the run around last time and will presumably be more tightly marshalled), Bath have a talented young fly half, Orlando Bailey and a very decent back line including Joe Cokanasiga, Ruaridh McConnochie, Max Ojomoh along with Lawrence and Gallagher. Their forwards also demand respect with the likes of Will Stuart, G J Van Velze, D’Arcy Rae, Beno Obano, Sam Underhill & Jaco Coetzee. We may also see a farewell cameo from Dave Attwood on his final appearance before retirement. Bath are missing Alfie Barbeary with a knee injury and Charlie Ewels is out in South Africa rehabbing with the Blue Bulls.
I expect Saracens to field a full strength team (unless anyone is carrying any niggles) with judicious use of the bench in the 2nd half. It was good to see both Owen and Maro looking back to their best last time, and reassuring that Owen seems to have found his kicking boots at last. I also hope we see Elliot Daly back after his hamstring injury. So probably something like Daly, Malins, Lozowski, Tompkins, Maitland, Farrell, Van Zyl, M Vunipola, George, Riccioni, Itoje, Hunter-Hill, Isiekwe, Earl, Wray.
The Bath board suggests Bath will field a team something like: Gallagher, Cokanasiga, Lawrence, Ojomoh, McConnachie, Bailey, Spencer; Obano, Dunn, Stuart, Van Velze, McNally, Hill, Underhill, Reid. Looks pretty strong to me and will provide Sarries with an excellent warm-up for the semi final. I rather doubt the result will be quite as one-sided as the last time Saracens came to The Rec.
Bath have lots of entertainment planned for those of you avoiding the Coronation with “The Reccy Summer Garden Party”. (I do hope the weather plays ball!) For the rest of us the game is live on BT Sport (along with the Bristol-Gloucester game - I assume because these are the only 2 matches with anything still at stake). A win would be nice but I’ll take a decent run-out for Daly, no injuries and no cards.
UPDATE
Referee: Christophe Ridley (not seen by us for a while I think) assisted by Jack Makepeace and Greg MacDonald. TMO Martin Fox (we must be grateful for no Hodnetts)
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Discussion started by TheSaracens.com , 04/05/2023 07:22
TheSaracens.com
04/05/2023 07:22
04/05/2023 07:22
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:15:07:42:52 by Darraghgirl.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:15:07:42:52 by Darraghgirl.
Very much hope Daly is fit and gets a run out. I’m expecting a full strength team or something close too so we don’t go into the semi final cold but a big part of me wants to wrap the back row in cotton wool.
I’d certainly keep Ben Earl out of the firing line and play Toby Knight, even Woolfie or Theo Dan at 7
I think Dan is also pretty important but agree that this is one game I think I wouldn't mind Earl given the week off.
I hope we resist the temptation to rush Daly back in for the last games. Instead back Malins at FB and have Goode on the bench. We won't though.
I hope we resist the temptation to rush Daly back in for the last games. Instead back Malins at FB and have Goode on the bench. We won't though.
OFFICIALS UPDATE:
Referee Christophe Ridley assisted by Jack Makepeace and Greg MacDonald. TMO Martin Fox. Not a Hodnett in sight!
Referee Christophe Ridley assisted by Jack Makepeace and Greg MacDonald. TMO Martin Fox. Not a Hodnett in sight!
Quote:Darraghgirl
OFFICIALS UPDATE:
Referee Christophe Ridley assisted by Jack Makepeace and Greg MacDonald. TMO Martin Fox. Not a Hodnett in sight!
Thank Godnett...
I'll get my coat...
All three of us in this house are expecting a young second string, with maybe a couple of older heads.
Whatever the team - in Mark McCall we trust.
Whatever the team - in Mark McCall we trust.
Saracens Men team to play Bath Rugby:
1 Eroni Mawi
2 Ethan Lewis (cc)
3 Christian Judge
4 Alex Wardell
5 Callum Hunter-Hill
6 Nathan Michelow
7 Toby Knight
8 Ollie Stonham
9 Ruben de Haas
10 Manu Vunipola
11 Ben Harris
12 Olly Hartley
13 Josh Hallett
14 Rotimi Segun
15 Elliot Daly (cc)
Replacements:
16 Samson Adejimi
17 Robin Hislop
18 Harvey Beaton
19 Kaden Pearce-Paul
20 Max Eke
21 Charlie Bracken
22 Dom Morris
23 Tobias Elliott
1 Eroni Mawi
2 Ethan Lewis (cc)
3 Christian Judge
4 Alex Wardell
5 Callum Hunter-Hill
6 Nathan Michelow
7 Toby Knight
8 Ollie Stonham
9 Ruben de Haas
10 Manu Vunipola
11 Ben Harris
12 Olly Hartley
13 Josh Hallett
14 Rotimi Segun
15 Elliot Daly (cc)
Replacements:
16 Samson Adejimi
17 Robin Hislop
18 Harvey Beaton
19 Kaden Pearce-Paul
20 Max Eke
21 Charlie Bracken
22 Dom Morris
23 Tobias Elliott
Interesting - we've clearly decided on a no risk policy! Bath will be delighted (Bristol less so).
Good to see Daly back
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:05:12:07:38 by Darraghgirl.
Good to see Daly back
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:05:12:07:38 by Darraghgirl.
Bath Rugby: 15 Matt Gallagher, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 12 Max Ojomoh, 11 Ruaridh McConnochie, 10 Orlando Bailey, 9 Ben Spencer ©; 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Josh McNally, 5 GJ van Velze, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Chris Cloete, 8 Miles Reid
Impact players: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 D’Arcy Rae, 19 Dave Attwood, 20 Josh Bayliss, 21 Max Green, 22 Piers Francis, 23 Jonathan Joseph
Impact players: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 D’Arcy Rae, 19 Dave Attwood, 20 Josh Bayliss, 21 Max Green, 22 Piers Francis, 23 Jonathan Joseph
Delighted to see Elliot back! Another good opportunity for the youngsters against a hungry Bath team. Hopefully no red card this time to de-rail them though. Slightly surprised Smally’s gone for a full B team but I suppose Saints haven’t got a match either so we’ll be as well rested as them.
I'm really excited by the match now. What was a dead rubber is now a chance to see the second string plus Daly up against a really strong and in form Bath side pushing for Champions Cup Rugby. A good opportunity for them and another chance for us to see them
Like others I really like the look of that team. Obviously a huge challenge to go away to an almost full strength Bath who are in a run of form but it's a great opportunity to look at some of the wider squad, future talent and a few players injury had denied us for much of the season. I'm especially interested in seeing Segun and Harris in tandem and also really like the look of the midfield. Hartley has looked good and Hallett demonstrated a great understanding with Manu in the Saints game.
Also really pleased for Manu and hope he can build on his last excellent game.
Lots of first caps and whilst he is obviously his own person it will be interesting to see if Adejimi can have a Dan like impact from the bench. The only game I caught of his earlier in the season he was a whirlwind and I think grabbed two or three tries? likewise it will be fascinating to see how that young backrow goes.
A huge challenge and leadership will be vital so I expect those players tasked with that role to step up in a big way. No red cards (no yellows too would be ideal!) and this 23 get a chance to test themselves against a quality side.
COYS.
(edit)
I wouldn't normally have a bet on Sarries games but as I'm not going I have split my beer money between a Sarries win and a draw. Given it's a "two horse" race and cards can happen BFs odds seem generous. As they say a fool and his money
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:05:15:02:51 by OldMarovian.
Also really pleased for Manu and hope he can build on his last excellent game.
Lots of first caps and whilst he is obviously his own person it will be interesting to see if Adejimi can have a Dan like impact from the bench. The only game I caught of his earlier in the season he was a whirlwind and I think grabbed two or three tries? likewise it will be fascinating to see how that young backrow goes.
A huge challenge and leadership will be vital so I expect those players tasked with that role to step up in a big way. No red cards (no yellows too would be ideal!) and this 23 get a chance to test themselves against a quality side.
COYS.
(edit)
I wouldn't normally have a bet on Sarries games but as I'm not going I have split my beer money between a Sarries win and a draw. Given it's a "two horse" race and cards can happen BFs odds seem generous. As they say a fool and his money
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:05:15:02:51 by OldMarovian.
You feel like we might lack a bit of forward weight but as echoed above a really exciting young team. There's a few players on there who pass my internal 'you could develop into someone who can play in a champions cup knock out game' metric and in order to do that, they need to play. In particular seeing the battle of the back rows and centers will be an excellent test.
Segun having a huge match so far!
Manu's kicking not quite there.
Overall good performance so far.
Manu's kicking not quite there.
Overall good performance so far.
I have been very pleasantly surprised by the Saracens team performance today as I expected Bath to push us around and whilst a few mauls have gone that way we have performed well in scrum and line out and our back play has been more creative and effective than Baths. So 4 tries before half time!
Great 1st half from the team, bums out and all! Just a shame re Manu’s last kick.
2nd a bit loose, good fun to watch , so many chance lost by the young lads and the score didnt reflect their performance, though rolling maul defence needs to be improved. Tobias looked a great potential player as did so many others. Bath certainly didnt deserve to get in the Champions cup the ending was stupid by Manu.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:06:17:56:30 by maynas.
2nd a bit loose, good fun to watch , so many chance lost by the young lads and the score didnt reflect their performance, though rolling maul defence needs to be improved. Tobias looked a great potential player as did so many others. Bath certainly didnt deserve to get in the Champions cup the ending was stupid by Manu.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:06:17:56:30 by maynas.
What happened at the end??? They mauled us to death but the players coming through look good on the whole!!
Manu with an absolute brain fart, didn't see all the game but what i saw he did not impress me
Quote:Might have thought we were still under advantage, I certainly did. Had to go back and listen very closely to barely hear the ref say advantage over after 1 tackle.flavman 35
Manu with an absolute brain fart, didn't see all the game but what i saw he did not impress me
Overall a decent performance from the youngsters. Dropped off slightly after the experience of Daly went off, which is to be expected.
Segun had a great game, expect to see a lot more of him next season. Didn't see much of Harris unfortunately. Scoreline definitely flattered them imo.
The future looks bright though, and the experience of Prem rugby is much more valuable than a win with our big guns would have been.
Segun had a great game, expect to see a lot more of him next season. Didn't see much of Harris unfortunately. Scoreline definitely flattered them imo.
The future looks bright though, and the experience of Prem rugby is much more valuable than a win with our big guns would have been.
Quote:flavman 35
Manu with an absolute brain fart, didn't see all the game but what i saw he did not impress me
Must disagree. I thought he had a very good game and scored a wonderful try. The decision to continue the game after 80 was understandable. Sarries had nothing to lose and it gave more game time to the young players.
Overall I was very impressed with all of our players. The future looks bright.
Bristolian. Does a team have the right to rest a few or more than a few players? Of course they do. It’s a given. Every team has done so throughout the game . But absolutely not the thick end of an entire team on a decision day. Gloss over and tendentiously interpret whatever you want but with the generality of other fans it won’t wash. @#$%& off Saracens.
Quote:We’re top, we have a semi next week. Why risk our starters? Sour grapes from you.Charlie1
Bristolian. Does a team have the right to rest a few or more than a few players? Of course they do. It’s a given. Every team has done so throughout the game . But absolutely not the thick end of an entire team on a decision day. Gloss over and tendentiously interpret whatever you want but with the generality of other fans it won’t wash. @#$%& off Saracens.
Quote:Charlie1
Bristolian. Does a team have the right to rest a few or more than a few players? Of course they do. It’s a given. Every team has done so throughout the game . But absolutely not the thick end of an entire team on a decision day. Gloss over and tendentiously interpret whatever you want but with the generality of other fans it won’t wash. @#$%& off Saracens.
While I understand your point to an extent. One could argue that this sort of selection has been a possibility for a while and that some better results earlier in the season rather than hoping other teams' results go your way would have maybe been a better strategy...
Well played lads, loads of promise and didn’t lie down. Manu was excellent other than the final kick during injury time so any doubters out there watch his highlights there were plenty, including an amazing 60m solo try. He really led from the front as well.
Roti, Manu, Hartley all very good. I think we were also a little unfortunate with some of the ref decisions - Obano was blatantly offside but he didn’t see it and then pinged us for the next offence. Young Charlie Bracken also livened things up.
The future generation is extremely promising and good to see Daly back and unscathed. His pass for Roti’s try shows what we have been missing at FB since he was injured. If we make the final I expect him to start over Goodey.
Interesting to see Sale fielding a full-strength side, maybe they don’t have the back row injuries we have.
Enjoy a beer on the way home young lads, you showed true Sarries grit and passion!
Roti, Manu, Hartley all very good. I think we were also a little unfortunate with some of the ref decisions - Obano was blatantly offside but he didn’t see it and then pinged us for the next offence. Young Charlie Bracken also livened things up.
The future generation is extremely promising and good to see Daly back and unscathed. His pass for Roti’s try shows what we have been missing at FB since he was injured. If we make the final I expect him to start over Goodey.
Interesting to see Sale fielding a full-strength side, maybe they don’t have the back row injuries we have.
Enjoy a beer on the way home young lads, you showed true Sarries grit and passion!
Quote:flavman 35
Manu with an absolute brain fart, didn't see all the game but what i saw he did not impress me
You could try watching the whole game then rather focus on a few seconds worth of a mistake?
Sarries MotM for me and another assured performance. That failed chip aside and missing three kicks out wide he controlled things beautifully (along with de Haas and later Bracken, created a wonderful try for himself and was key in helping set up another, defensively a huge performance including chasing down Lawrence on Baths pretty much sole attack that wasn't generated from a lineout drive after a Sarries penalty.
Hartley, Segun and Knight also with massive games. I think had we retained possession better (lineouts an issue) we might have bought both wings in a bit more?
Tbh to go there with that team and be where the team was at half time is hugely impressive as is that heads didn't dip when the score began to open up and they played some lovely attacking rugby. A real shame Eke? couldn't hang onto the pass on the Segun break. It really deserved a try.
The reality is as well as Sarries played in parts as often as not it was silly penalties that gave Bath the field position for them to use their excellent maul. Without those entries they looked very short of ideas.
"Sir" set out his stall early by telling Daly he couldn't speak with him as he wasn't Captain when he in fact, erm, was.
Overall it feels a shame that indiscipline was what mainly kept it from being closer but that's something that can be worked on. Certainly the future seems bright.
Quote:Stumpy7780Quote:We’re top, we have a semi next week. Why risk our starters? Sour grapes from you.Charlie1
Bristolian. Does a team have the right to rest a few or more than a few players? Of course they do. It’s a given. Every team has done so throughout the game . But absolutely not the thick end of an entire team on a decision day. Gloss over and tendentiously interpret whatever you want but with the generality of other fans it won’t wash. @#$%& off Saracens.
Because it’s a league thicko and you’re either in it or you’re not. So at least you should put up a league grade team. Enjoy you’re lager top but truly remember this, karma is an invetabilty.
Quote:Charlie1Quote:Stumpy7780Quote:We’re top, we have a semi next week. Why risk our starters? Sour grapes from you.Charlie1
Bristolian. Does a team have the right to rest a few or more than a few players? Of course they do. It’s a given. Every team has done so throughout the game . But absolutely not the thick end of an entire team on a decision day. Gloss over and tendentiously interpret whatever you want but with the generality of other fans it won’t wash. @#$%& off Saracens.
Because it’s a league thicko and you’re either in it or you’re not. So at least you should put up a league grade team. Enjoy you’re lager top but truly remember this, karma is an invetabilty.
If you honestly think Bristol wouldn't have done the same/similar thing in had you been in our position, then you're deluded.
Charlie1
It is sadly a fact that with smaller budgets that clubs really do have to prioritise certain games.
I realise that Sarries playing a young development side meant that Bath had a significant advantage over Bristol today, but similarly we turned up at Northampton a few weeks ago with a pretty inexperienced team and lost which hurt London Irish even more.
But from Sarries perspective once we had a home semi secured the most important factor is protecting our key players for the home semi final. Every other club in the League would have done the same if they had been in the same position. So whilst I understand your moan I really don’t think it has substance.
On the other hand we as supporters got to see some of the future Saracens stars play in a really hard competitive match and that is brilliant for them and is actually why players like Theo Dan, Andy Christie etc come through so fast at Sarries,
It is sadly a fact that with smaller budgets that clubs really do have to prioritise certain games.
I realise that Sarries playing a young development side meant that Bath had a significant advantage over Bristol today, but similarly we turned up at Northampton a few weeks ago with a pretty inexperienced team and lost which hurt London Irish even more.
But from Sarries perspective once we had a home semi secured the most important factor is protecting our key players for the home semi final. Every other club in the League would have done the same if they had been in the same position. So whilst I understand your moan I really don’t think it has substance.
On the other hand we as supporters got to see some of the future Saracens stars play in a really hard competitive match and that is brilliant for them and is actually why players like Theo Dan, Andy Christie etc come through so fast at Sarries,
Who gives a monkeys whether other teams think resting players is the right thing to do or not. If MM decides it’s right then in him we trust. Future looks bright!
Quote:SarrieboneQuote:Charlie1Quote:Stumpy7780Quote:We’re top, we have a semi next week. Why risk our starters? Sour grapes from you.Charlie1
Bristolian. Does a team have the right to rest a few or more than a few players? Of course they do. It’s a given. Every team has done so throughout the game . But absolutely not the thick end of an entire team on a decision day. Gloss over and tendentiously interpret whatever you want but with the generality of other fans it won’t wash. @#$%& off Saracens.
Because it’s a league thicko and you’re either in it or you’re not. So at least you should put up a league grade team. Enjoy you’re lager top but truly remember this, karma is an invetabilty.
If you honestly think Bristol wouldn't have done the same/similar thing in had you been in our position, then you're deluded.
What a C team? Really? Over many decades I can personally never ever remembering Bristol reduce themselves to that. Disrespectful to the other teams today. Poor show. Enjoy your moment.
Quote:Sarriebone
While I understand your point to an extent.
Why? If I get their argument right it's that after Bristol weren't good enough to secure top 8 on their own somehow Sarries owe it to, the God of fair play or something? to beat a team to allow Bristol to finish 8th rather than say, protect our players for actual Finals games?
It would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic. Thankfully Bristol have a whole host of quality supporters who realise that if they'd seen out any one of about four games they lost in the last minutes this season it would have all been in their own hands plus Bristol would almost certainly do the same in our situation.
I'd have thought if they're actually going to improve next season then a proper tilt at the Challenge Cup probably suits them better than being hopelessly outmatched in the Champions Cup (as to be fair pretty much all Premiership teams are)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:06:19:19:33 by OldMarovian.
Quote:OldMarovianQuote:Sarriebone
While I understand your point to an extent.
Why? If I get their argument right it's that after Bristol weren't good enough to secure top 8 on their own somehow Sarries owe it to, the God of fair play or something? to beat a team to allow Bristol to finish 8th rather than say, protect our players for actual Finals games?
It would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic. Thankfully Bristol have a whole host of quality supporters who realise that if they'd seen out any one of about four games they lost in the last minutes this season it would have all been in their own hands plus Bristol would almost certainly do the same in our situation.
I'd have thought if they're actually going to improve next season then a proper tilt at the Challenge Cup probably suits them better than being hopelessly outmatched in the Champions Cup (as to be fair pretty much all Premiership teams are)
I meant I understand the point in so much as they're disappointed but as you say if you're depending on other teams results to go your way to get the outcome you want then you've got no-one but your own results to blame.
Here’s an idea Charlie 1. Try wining your own games first before blaming others.
Chsrlie1. Next week while you and your team are taking it easy, we have a tough game against Saints.
Quote:OldMarovianQuote:Sarriebone
While I understand your point to an extent.
Why? If I get their argument right it's that after Bristol weren't good enough to secure top 8 on their own somehow Sarries owe it to, the God of fair play or something? to beat a team to allow Bristol to finish 8th rather than say, protect our players for actual Finals games?
It would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic. Thankfully Bristol have a whole host of quality supporters who realise that if they'd seen out any one of about four games they lost in the last minutes this season it would have all been in their own hands plus Bristol would almost certainly do the same in our situation.
I'd have thought if they're actually going to improve next season then a proper tilt at the Challenge Cup probably suits them better than being hopelessly outmatched in the Champions Cup (as to be fair pretty much all Premiership teams are)
All teams are where they are in the table for obvious reasons that cannot be denied and quite rightly so. The cream rises to the top. Not a problem whatsoever. No one from The West is asking any “favours”. To withhold though a whole team on a decision day? Granted, the Saracen ubers will nod, but from my meetings with their supporters over the years, not all.
Decision day ? It wasn’t as though there was relegation. All it means is that instead of playing Leinster you are going to be playing Racing. Unless you realistically think you have a chance of winning the Champions Cup then it’s makes no difference. And let’s be honest a team qualifying 8th in the Premiership is hardly likely to win the Champions Cup.
Quote:Not sure who’s the thicko here. It may be a league but as I know Bristol are aware, you win nothing for coming top. You do however win something for winning the playoffs. Hence that takes priority.Charlie1Quote:Stumpy7780Quote:We’re top, we have a semi next week. Why risk our starters? Sour grapes from you.Charlie1
Bristolian. Does a team have the right to rest a few or more than a few players? Of course they do. It’s a given. Every team has done so throughout the game . But absolutely not the thick end of an entire team on a decision day. Gloss over and tendentiously interpret whatever you want but with the generality of other fans it won’t wash. @#$%& off Saracens.
Because it’s a league thicko and you’re either in it or you’re not. So at least you should put up a league grade team. Enjoy your lager top but truly remember this, karma is an invetabilty.
Quote:Charlie1Quote:SarrieboneQuote:Charlie1Quote:Stumpy7780Quote:We’re top, we have a semi next week. Why risk our starters? Sour grapes from you.Charlie1
Bristolian. Does a team have the right to rest a few or more than a few players? Of course they do. It’s a given. Every team has done so throughout the game . But absolutely not the thick end of an entire team on a decision day. Gloss over and tendentiously interpret whatever you want but with the generality of other fans it won’t wash. @#$%& off Saracens.
Because it’s a league thicko and you’re either in it or you’re not. So at least you should put up a league grade team. Enjoy you’re lager top but truly remember this, karma is an invetabilty.
If you honestly think Bristol wouldn't have done the same/similar thing in had you been in our position, then you're deluded.
What a C team? Really? Over many decades I can personally never ever remembering Bristol reduce themselves to that. Disrespectful to the other teams today. Poor show. Enjoy your moment.
If you were so desperate then maybe winning more than 8 matches this season would have put you in a better position than having to rely on someone else to get the results for you...
Quote:Banzai1314
Decision day ? It wasn’t as though there was relegation. All it means is that instead of playing Leinster you are going to be playing Racing. Unless you realistically think you have a chance of winning the Champions Cup then it’s makes no difference. And let’s be honest a team qualifying 8th in the Premiership is hardly likely to win the Champions Cup.
Spot on. And reasonably said. But for the future we ALL have to buy in to our own league in its entirety as through the year it is that which sustains the English game. Changes were fine today but not perhaps not so many.
Charlie,
Bristol would have finished ahead of Bath if you had scored one more try, conversion and penalty during the whole season. Sorry, not our problem!
Those youngsters will be in the match day 23 in the next couple of seasons and at Twickenham for the final after that. Some will play for England, too.
Here's to next season and may Max Malins play well for you when you are not facing us.
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
Bristol would have finished ahead of Bath if you had scored one more try, conversion and penalty during the whole season. Sorry, not our problem!
Those youngsters will be in the match day 23 in the next couple of seasons and at Twickenham for the final after that. Some will play for England, too.
Here's to next season and may Max Malins play well for you when you are not facing us.
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
It’s a bit perverse to enjoy a game so much when we get beaten by such a big score but it was all about giving those players a big run out and there were some great performances. Some of those players will play a big part next season. We have our next Theo Dans, Andy Christies, Ben Earls etc which is exciting.
Some possibly interesting stats and figures.
Sarries,
the only team to be unbeaten at home all (regular) season.
top points scorers with 622.
joint second most trys scored,78 (with Quins) behind Saints, 84.
joint 4th defence, -513 points (with Chiefs) with Sale, -435. LI, -485 and Tigers, -490 all meaner than us.
In the top 4 our and Saints attack averages out pretty much the same with 31 points a game.
Sale is by far the meanest defence conceding just -22 points a game (v our -26)
Sarries,
the only team to be unbeaten at home all (regular) season.
top points scorers with 622.
joint second most trys scored,78 (with Quins) behind Saints, 84.
joint 4th defence, -513 points (with Chiefs) with Sale, -435. LI, -485 and Tigers, -490 all meaner than us.
In the top 4 our and Saints attack averages out pretty much the same with 31 points a game.
Sale is by far the meanest defence conceding just -22 points a game (v our -26)
Bath supporter here.
Well played Sarries. Gave us a bit of a shock and did not let us have the easy win that some predicted.
Clearly some talent in that “A” team and contributed to an interesting back & forth match of many tries.
Please don’t pay too much attention to bitter trolls!
PG
Well played Sarries. Gave us a bit of a shock and did not let us have the easy win that some predicted.
Clearly some talent in that “A” team and contributed to an interesting back & forth match of many tries.
Please don’t pay too much attention to bitter trolls!
PG
Cheers P G. It would have been nice for us if the second half had been a touch closer but in the end we couldn't deal with the extra physicality and your incredible mauling game. Have a good off season and a great start to the new season. I hope you'll still be about the Bath forum even though you're retiring the "pen"
Very frustrating that some refs give phantom penalties for obstruction at lineouts when there clearly wasn’t any, yet some refs let the lifters get in front of the catcher every time as we saw today.
No idea what he had against us today, but we got precisely none of the 50-50’s
No idea what he had against us today, but we got precisely none of the 50-50’s
Just watching the Ashy red card confirms we were right to keep everyone at home. Really can’t see how challenges like this will be totally avoided and a sanction change must happen ASAP.
Also the new HIA protocols would rule out anyone who failed one this week from the semi.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:07:08:58:36 by The Bard.
Also the new HIA protocols would rule out anyone who failed one this week from the semi.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:07:08:58:36 by The Bard.
The Bard I didn't notice that watching live but on the re-watch you're quite right. A couple of tries come from lineouts where the lifters acted as blockers. I guess we're more sensitive to it having been penalised by referees for it several times this season. One of those Laws whose application is very arbitrary.
Tbh I found Makepeaces performance slightly frustrating but not a huge issue live but a re-watch leaves me feeling slightly less charitable.
Even though it was a big loss worth it for Hartley sending Lawrence on a flying trip on the tryline and Manus brilliant break starting with brushing aside Reid like he was a chugger on the high street My guess is Taylor comes back into the equation on the bench but tbh I think I'd have Hartley there if we go with centre cover.
Tbh I found Makepeaces performance slightly frustrating but not a huge issue live but a re-watch leaves me feeling slightly less charitable.
Even though it was a big loss worth it for Hartley sending Lawrence on a flying trip on the tryline and Manus brilliant break starting with brushing aside Reid like he was a chugger on the high street
My guess is Taylor comes back into the equation on the bench but tbh I think I'd have Hartley there if we go with centre cover.
I think we all know Mark always goes with experience in big games. But now Daly is back in the mix he might cover that role.
Regarding the team we put out, it's only natural that we think it's fine to rest the 1st team for an infinitely more important match (especially during a weekend which our opponents, Northampton, had off) and that a few (not many) Bristol fans think it a disgrace because it made their giving away of a penalty try/not scoring enough tries during the season significant.
By contrast, there were no complaints from London Irish that they had to play our 1st team when Northampton played our 2nd, arguably the decisive factor in who made the play offs.
A few random thoughts:
1. With the absence of a proper 2nd string competition young players need all the opportunities they can get
2. Irish Rugby is lauded to the heavens for it's organisation, one could say, because Leinster never have to put out a 1st team in the URC which is a bit of a bone of contention for teams like Toulouse and La Rochelle who have to play them after competing in the hardest league in Europe.
And most importantly -3. what about player welfare? We are always hearing about players, especially internationals, playing too much. Shouldn't we take every opportunity to rest them?
I quite admit I have my Sarries supporter glasses on and I'd be frustrated if I was an Irish or Brizzle supporter. It's also quite entertaining and nostalgic to be hated by a few loonies again
By contrast, there were no complaints from London Irish that they had to play our 1st team when Northampton played our 2nd, arguably the decisive factor in who made the play offs.
A few random thoughts:
1. With the absence of a proper 2nd string competition young players need all the opportunities they can get
2. Irish Rugby is lauded to the heavens for it's organisation, one could say, because Leinster never have to put out a 1st team in the URC which is a bit of a bone of contention for teams like Toulouse and La Rochelle who have to play them after competing in the hardest league in Europe.
And most importantly -3. what about player welfare? We are always hearing about players, especially internationals, playing too much. Shouldn't we take every opportunity to rest them?
I quite admit I have my Sarries supporter glasses on and I'd be frustrated if I was an Irish or Brizzle supporter. It's also quite entertaining and nostalgic to be hated by a few loonies again
I would say any Bristol fans outraged have very short memories, and are deluded if they think they wouldn't do the same in this position.
Any team's finishing place in the league is 99% due to how they performed over the course of the season compared to their opposition. If we were in Bristol's position I'm sure I'd be a bit annoyed but I'm absolutely sure I'd be thinking about it in the same way as I am now. The regular season is 20odd matches long after all (with a margin of error for mid season withdrawals...)
Any team's finishing place in the league is 99% due to how they performed over the course of the season compared to their opposition. If we were in Bristol's position I'm sure I'd be a bit annoyed but I'm absolutely sure I'd be thinking about it in the same way as I am now. The regular season is 20odd matches long after all (with a margin of error for mid season withdrawals...)
They played us twice when we were far from full strength and lost both times.
“I haven’t got a problem with what Saracens did. When you have done what they did you have earned the right to do it, so I have got no issue with Saracens and we would probably have done the same thing. We shouldn’t have been in that situation.”
Gracious words from pat
[www.rugbypass.com]
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Gracious words from pat
[www.rugbypass.com]
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Was at game... on east terrace... no expectation from game but the team were excellent.
Not a single player underperformed. First half was one of the most enjoyable i have watched as no expectation but Sarries were the more dynamic and exciting team by far. Hartley is an aquistion we need to keep Segun scared the bath supporters around us everytime he touched the ball. Ollie Stonham was standout.
Daly was superb for his 40 mins appearance and hopefully good to go next game... Manu v... his try has to be up there for individual try of the season... but more important he was in control.... playing out after the red 80... i was for kicking out but it was amazing to see the confidence of the team.
It is not often you leave a game smiling after conceding 60 points but we have some great prospects... too many to mention.
Not a single player underperformed. First half was one of the most enjoyable i have watched as no expectation but Sarries were the more dynamic and exciting team by far. Hartley is an aquistion we need to keep Segun scared the bath supporters around us everytime he touched the ball. Ollie Stonham was standout.
Daly was superb for his 40 mins appearance and hopefully good to go next game... Manu v... his try has to be up there for individual try of the season... but more important he was in control.... playing out after the red 80... i was for kicking out but it was amazing to see the confidence of the team.
It is not often you leave a game smiling after conceding 60 points but we have some great prospects... too many to mention.
Agree with both Paxton and others. Never enjoyed a comprehensive loss so much!
[www.youtube.com]
For anyone who hasn't seen Manus effort, from 3:45-ish surely one of (the?) best individual trys this season by any player. A couple of steps, shrugging off of a bigger defender right on top of him, fending two others and gassing Gallagher at FB. Lovely stuff
[www.youtube.com]
For anyone who hasn't seen Manus effort, from 3:45-ish surely one of (the?) best individual trys this season by any player. A couple of steps, shrugging off of a bigger defender right on top of him, fending two others and gassing Gallagher at FB. Lovely stuff
Segun is brilliant and really really strong in the tackle, I double took im sure managed to pull a prop into touch to save a try!!! I saw there is more talk of Watson joining us next season.
Will Segun play in more games next season? Looks like we have really depth for next season with players joining and existing ones coming through. Hartley really bullied some of their players for his try's.
Manu's solo run was brilliant, Bracken looks like a player as well. Was a bit disappointed with Ruben's last game with us. Maybe a bit of ring rust.
The worrying thing is if we make the final we may come up against one of our old coaches. Will this become a jinx whereby old coaches and players know our systems to turn us over in a final, just a thought!!
Will Segun play in more games next season? Looks like we have really depth for next season with players joining and existing ones coming through. Hartley really bullied some of their players for his try's.
Manu's solo run was brilliant, Bracken looks like a player as well. Was a bit disappointed with Ruben's last game with us. Maybe a bit of ring rust.
The worrying thing is if we make the final we may come up against one of our old coaches. Will this become a jinx whereby old coaches and players know our systems to turn us over in a final, just a thought!!
Quote:wolfgangvonb77
Segun is brilliant and really really strong in the tackle, I double took im sure managed to pull a prop into touch to save a try!!! I saw there is more talk of Watson joining us next season.
Will Segun play in more games next season? Looks like we have really depth for next season with players joining and existing ones coming through. Hartley really bullied some of their players for his try's.
Manu's solo run was brilliant, Bracken looks like a player as well. Was a bit disappointed with Ruben's last game with us. Maybe a bit of ring rust.
The worrying thing is if we make the final we may come up against one of our old coaches. Will this become a jinx whereby old coaches and players know our systems to turn us over in a final, just a thought!!
Sarries of a year ago played to very rigid systems but the Sarries of this season have played far more heads up and creative rugby which I think mean that other clubs and coaches have a lot more to think about!!
I really hope Watson is just a rumour. Honestly not in the slightest interested in having him with us. We have great players coming through I want to see us back them.
Agree CoS. The biggest failing in the last season was not backing ourselves in the final. It didn't stick in the first half but we were cutting Tigers to pieces just fumbling the last passes. Instead of backing it to come good we went conservative. My take at least.
We're a season further on and much more comfortable playing a more expansive game and the players have adapted brilliantly.
Probably the biggest question for me is how we play without Billy especially if we meet up with the physicality of Tigers or Sale. One I'm sure the coaches are well on top of.
Exciting times though.
Oh and with the very strong defences we might be up against if we're not practicing drop-goals (not just Farrell but a number of our better kickers) then we're missing a huge trick.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:07:18:44:32 by OldMarovian.
Agree CoS. The biggest failing in the last season was not backing ourselves in the final. It didn't stick in the first half but we were cutting Tigers to pieces just fumbling the last passes. Instead of backing it to come good we went conservative. My take at least.
We're a season further on and much more comfortable playing a more expansive game and the players have adapted brilliantly.
Probably the biggest question for me is how we play without Billy especially if we meet up with the physicality of Tigers or Sale. One I'm sure the coaches are well on top of.
Exciting times though.
Oh and with the very strong defences we might be up against if we're not practicing drop-goals (not just Farrell but a number of our better kickers) then we're missing a huge trick.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:07:18:44:32 by OldMarovian.
Farrell obviously knocked over a slightly shonky one v Glaws earlier in the season but I still remember Daly nailing a drop goal from the touchline against Ireland in 2020 (I think). I’d let him have a crack if needed.
Dalys boot has always seemed more about power and range than accuracy but with players like Farrell, Goode and Lozo also options if you're training for drop-goals if, say the referee allows the opposition to endlessly kill the ball in their 22 with no sanction, then with a number of potential kickers it should be much easier to manipulate a more straight-forward shot at the posts.
When he's on song Dalys boot for long range goals is a fantastic "weapon"
Also if he nails the kick it sends out a warning that the opposition need to be careful infringing almost to the half way line. Definitely a very useful option to have.
When he's on song Dalys boot for long range goals is a fantastic "weapon"
Also if he nails the kick it sends out a warning that the opposition need to be careful infringing almost to the half way line. Definitely a very useful option to have.
Praise for Daly OM? That's not like you - I think you need a lie down!
I have to say I agree with you, and at StoneX I'm pretty sure I've seen him nail a penalty from well inside his own half (Valentine's Day massacre I think).
Re the weekend's match, having watched it back I think the result was bang on, but the margin very flattering. On the up side I believe I've seen a good number of the starting 15 for 4 or 5 years time show what they can do, and with support from senior players and more game time in meaningful matches the future squad will be in a pretty good place.
I have to say I agree with you, and at StoneX I'm pretty sure I've seen him nail a penalty from well inside his own half (Valentine's Day massacre I think).
Re the weekend's match, having watched it back I think the result was bang on, but the margin very flattering. On the up side I believe I've seen a good number of the starting 15 for 4 or 5 years time show what they can do, and with support from senior players and more game time in meaningful matches the future squad will be in a pretty good place.
Daly is a quality player no doubting that.
Agree about the weekend. Also Elliott (Tobias!) at FB looks some talent
Agree about the weekend. Also Elliott (Tobias!) at FB looks some talent
It’s my hope that Elliott is seen as the next Goode/Malins to come through the academy, no pressure then 😁
He's started off well in that regard by playing every position from 10-15 during the Prem Cup/friendlies!
The two "alternative squad" games against Saints and Bath were exciting views of what the teams could be for the next few years. As others have said, I've rarely enjoyed such large defeats so much.
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
Quote:Charlie1Quote:SarrieboneQuote:Charlie1Quote:Stumpy7780Quote:We’re top, we have a semi next week. Why risk our starters? Sour grapes from you.Charlie1
Bristolian. Does a team have the right to rest a few or more than a few players? Of course they do. It’s a given. Every team has done so throughout the game . But absolutely not the thick end of an entire team on a decision day. Gloss over and tendentiously interpret whatever you want but with the generality of other fans it won’t wash. @#$%& off Saracens.
Because it’s a league thicko and you’re either in it or you’re not. So at least you should put up a league grade team. Enjoy you’re lager top but truly remember this, karma is an invetabilty.
If you honestly think Bristol wouldn't have done the same/similar thing in had you been in our position, then you're deluded.
What a C team? Really? Over many decades I can personally never ever remembering Bristol reduce themselves to that. Disrespectful to the other teams today. Poor show. Enjoy your moment.
You need to have a word with Lam then who presumably you also think is a thicko as he has said he would have done the same thing 🤷🏻
After watching Charlie Bracken play at Bath and seeing the Family resemblance I thought to dust off an old tune with new words
Manu Vunipola
His cousins are all older
Hartley on his shoulder
Outside of nice but dim
Manu Vunipola
His cousins are all older
Hartley on his shoulder
Outside of nice but dim
Quote:Barty II
He's started off well in that regard by playing every position from 10-15 during the Prem Cup/friendlies!
Yes he was one of the stand-outs or me in those rather grim fixtures.
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