Saracens
SAINTS PREVIEW: PLEASE POST ALL MATCH RELATED COMMENTS HERE
By The Saracens
November 10 2022
Sunday sees the last, and probably most difficult challenge for Saracens during the Autumn Internationals when Northampton Saints come to the StoneX. Sarries have had an incredible start to the season with 8 wins from 8 and 38 from a possible 40 points putting them 10 points clear of nearest rivals Sale. Saints are in 4th with 22 points, having won 4 from 8, including 3 of their last 4 fixtures (a small aberration against Bath being the only blemish). But make no mistake, this will probably be the toughest challenge so far! Sarries, down to the bottom of the barrel (and maybe beyond depending on what Yoda decides), must once again dig deep into dwindling resources before most of the squad get a 3 week break (presumably in the sun somewhere). Incredibly this is our last Premiership fixture until 23rd December!
This mixture of old and young have produced so much more than we could have expected over the past 2 weeks. A miraculous performance against Sale was followed by a much grittier one in the wind and rain at Ashton Gate but the result was the same. Young players will have learned a lot about top flight rugby, recovering players will have learned about their fitness, first team regulars have continued to produce the sort of form that would earn international call-ups from anyone but Eddie and the coaches will have discovered even more about the present and the future of this great club. We have seen the baptism of a very promising young hooker in Theo Dan, the continued development of an emerging lock in Callum Hunter-Hill, the return to fitness of a titan in Marco Riccioni, the development of an excellent scrum half in Ivan Van Zyl. Ben Earl, Alex Lozowski, Elliot Daly, Alex Goode, Ben Earl, Max Malins all go from strength to strength. Alex Lewington, Andy Christie and Jackson Wray have risen to the challenge as we knew they would. Hugh Tizard is learning with every game. Newbies James Flynn, Robin Hislop and Andrew Kitchener are scrubbing up well.
Saints are presumably still missing Courtney Lawes and Lewis Ludlam, and injured fly half Dan Biggar has gone to France. Saints board also suggests they will be without Grayson & Sleightholme and Augustus us doubtful. England have again called on George Furbank, Alex Coles and David Ribbans and added Alex Mitchell and Tommy Freeman (both of whom scored 2 tries in the past couple of weeks) to the squad although they have subsequently been released. Saints have signed exciting former Wuss stand-off Fin Smith who has hit the ground running.
I imagine Sarries will be unchanged from last weekend unless there are any injuries we haven’t heard about. Malins and Tizard are once again surplus to requirements as is Christie I believe. Good news that Jamie George is back with the England squad ahead of time. Please don't break him Eddie!
So a big game against our old rivals. Apparently Saints have won only 1 of the last 10 premiership clashes between the 2 teams: in October 2019 at StoneX.
Referee is Andrew Jackson assisted by Nick Wood & Phil Watters with Claire Hodnott in the truck.
Tough one to call. Home advantage could be the decider. Sadly the change of date means I can’t be there but I’m sure the rest of you will be shouting loudly for our Men in Black to make it 9 from 9.
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StumbleuponSAINTS PREVIEW: PLEASE POST ALL MATCH RELATED COMMENTS HERE
Discussion started by TheSaracens.com , 10/11/2022 13:28
TheSaracens.com
10/11/2022 13:28
10/11/2022 13:28
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:12:05:08:46:19 by Darraghgirl.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:12:05:08:46:19 by Darraghgirl.
Good preview although slightly odd to have a picture of Simmonds Minor? Do Saints get a free MBE if they beat us 
Saints far less impacted than Sarries for this game and a dry day at the StoneX would seem to be perfectly set up for the game they prefer to play. It feels very much like the sort of game we'd traditionally try and defend our way to a win (old school Sarries style) so it will be interesting to see if the coaches chose a different approach.
Normally you'd think that teams might get change out of Saints up-front but I was impressed with how they played against Chiefs. That said it was also great to see our pack do so well in their last couple of outings so it's hard to call.
Looking forward to both the game and having my first Brick Lane Beigel at the StoneX (I'm sure I'll find it but anyone know where they're located?)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:11:10:16:29:39 by OldMarovian.
Saints far less impacted than Sarries for this game and a dry day at the StoneX would seem to be perfectly set up for the game they prefer to play. It feels very much like the sort of game we'd traditionally try and defend our way to a win (old school Sarries style) so it will be interesting to see if the coaches chose a different approach.
Normally you'd think that teams might get change out of Saints up-front but I was impressed with how they played against Chiefs. That said it was also great to see our pack do so well in their last couple of outings so it's hard to call.
Looking forward to both the game and having my first Brick Lane Beigel at the StoneX (I'm sure I'll find it but anyone know where they're located?)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:11:10:16:29:39 by OldMarovian.
Well the full squad have earned a buffer which lets them play this game without pressure, hope the weather is kind and we show ITV more of the early season Saracens form!
Thanks for that OM
It was mis labeled as Fin Smith ! but you are of course correct
I will endeavour to amend!
Now that's more like it!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:11:10:17:19:33 by Darraghgirl.
It was mis labeled as Fin Smith ! but you are of course correct
I will endeavour to amend!
Now that's more like it!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:11:10:17:19:33 by Darraghgirl.
Saracens Men team to play Northampton Saints:
1 Robin Hislop
2 Theo Dan
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Callum Hunter-Hill
5 Andrew Kitchener
6 Andy Christie
7 Ben Earl (c)
8 Jackson Wray
9 Ivan van Zyl
10 Alex Goode
11 Sean Maitland
12 Alex Lozowski
13 Elliot Daly
14 Alex Lewington
15 Max Malins
Replacements:
16 Ethan Lewis
17 James Flynn
18 Alec Clarey
19 Ollie Stonham
20 Hugh Tizard
21 Gareth Simpson
22 Josh Hallett
23 Tom Howe
1 Robin Hislop
2 Theo Dan
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Callum Hunter-Hill
5 Andrew Kitchener
6 Andy Christie
7 Ben Earl (c)
8 Jackson Wray
9 Ivan van Zyl
10 Alex Goode
11 Sean Maitland
12 Alex Lozowski
13 Elliot Daly
14 Alex Lewington
15 Max Malins
Replacements:
16 Ethan Lewis
17 James Flynn
18 Alec Clarey
19 Ollie Stonham
20 Hugh Tizard
21 Gareth Simpson
22 Josh Hallett
23 Tom Howe
Northampton side:
15 George Furbank
14 Tommy Freeman
13 Fraser Dingwall (c)
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Courtnall Skosan
10 Fin Smith
9 Alex Mitchell
1 Alex Waller
2 Mike Haywood
3 Paul Hill
4 Lukhan Salakaia-Loto
5 Alex Moon
6 Angus Scott-Young
7 Sam Graham
8 Juarno Augustus
Replacements:
16 Robbie Smith
17 Emmanuel Iyogun
18 Ehren Painter
19 Brandon Nansen
20 Kayde Sylvester
21 Tom James
22 Matt Proctor
23 James Ramm
15 George Furbank
14 Tommy Freeman
13 Fraser Dingwall (c)
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Courtnall Skosan
10 Fin Smith
9 Alex Mitchell
1 Alex Waller
2 Mike Haywood
3 Paul Hill
4 Lukhan Salakaia-Loto
5 Alex Moon
6 Angus Scott-Young
7 Sam Graham
8 Juarno Augustus
Replacements:
16 Robbie Smith
17 Emmanuel Iyogun
18 Ehren Painter
19 Brandon Nansen
20 Kayde Sylvester
21 Tom James
22 Matt Proctor
23 James Ramm
Saints missing Matavesi, Ribbans, Coles, Lawes. Ludlum. Hinkley from first choice pack
We are missing Jamie, Mako, Billy, Maro, Nick and Theo from our first choice pack so pretty even stevens
At the end of the day it's all a bit immaterial. We have two decent looking teams and those are the players available!
It's on TV so lets hope it's a decent game.
It's on TV so lets hope it's a decent game.
Quote:OldMarovian
At the end of the day it's all a bit immaterial. We have two decent looking teams and those are the players available!
It's on TV so lets hope it's a decent game.
I'm hoping to be there, so let's hope it's a decent game!
Quote:APQuote:OldMarovian
At the end of the day it's all a bit immaterial. We have two decent looking teams and those are the players available!
It's on TV so lets hope it's a decent game.
I'm hoping to be there, so let's hope it's a decent game!
Indeed. Just meant that it would be nice to show the neutrals we can play a bit
It's an Apropalypse. Maybe we need to get Clarey off, if he's out only prop left standing
Very disappointed I couldn’t make it to the StoneX this afternoon but what a match. Ben Earl was quite simply a force of nature and how Eddie Jones doesn’t have him in the starting XV for England I will never know.
The Saints must be feeling shell shocked after that last 20 minutes.
The Saints must be feeling shell shocked after that last 20 minutes.
Not sure how anyone can leave Ben Earl out the England squad on that performance. Both in attack and defence just brilliant
Just realised we need a front row next week. I hope we can put one together.
Unbelievable comeback there. Didn't expect it but huge determination shown by everyone. Hunter-Hill was immense again. Theo Dan is like having Brits back. Great win
Unbelievable comeback there. Didn't expect it but huge determination shown by everyone. Hunter-Hill was immense again. Theo Dan is like having Brits back. Great win
I've been banging on to my friends that "you need to score 40 points to beat us this season" (mostly when the opposition aren't trying to score tries and are happy to take 3). Northampton getting 39 was a real test to the theory! What a game that neither side really deserved to lose.
OMG huge dual scream from us here when Daly went over - sent the cat rushing out. So glad the lawn mower tripped so I had to come in for the last 10 minutes.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:11:13:14:36:53 by tpr's headmistress.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:11:13:14:36:53 by tpr's headmistress.
Again I'm disappointed with the inconsistency with head shots. That last one was nasty, and the ref used the fact Howe had the audacity not to stand still and allow the player coming in high to smash him out of play as mitigation?
Quote:myleftboot
Again I'm disappointed with the inconsistency with head shots. That last one was nasty, and the ref used the fact Howe had the audacity not to stand still and allow the player coming in high to smash him out of play as mitigation?
To be fair, he was consistent today, they should have both been reds imo
Is it bad that I've gone onto ITV +1 to rewatch the last 25 mins without the stress?
There were a couple of lovely Saints fans sitting next to me who were smiling at 32 - 17 (when I thought we might ship 50 points) but were rather stunned at the end.
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
Well that was fantastic entertainment. I really didn't think we could come back when we were 22 points down especially when Malins went off but to score 27 unanswered points was surreal. I would not like to have been a Saints fan this afternoon. Earl was absolutely outstanding again. I feel sorry for him that Eddie somehow doesn't rate him enough but grateful at the same time. We definitely don't win that game without him. I am also really impressed with Theo Dan who has real dog about him and Christie too has been great these last few weeks.
Our mini crisis at hooker has been great for building depth. Before the season started I worried about George being away and Woolstencroft’s injury record but Pifeleti and Dan have stepped up superbly and Ethan Lewis has clearly been working on his darts too and not let us down. Now we look incredibly strong in that position. The two postponed matches couldn’t come at a better time though, we are completely out of looseheads unless there’s someone from the academy I’m missing.
What a start to the season though, definitely getting our moneys worth with the season ticket!
What a start to the season though, definitely getting our moneys worth with the season ticket!
It had a 50 point defeat written all over it with 30 to go as we couldn’t keep them out and were exasperated with the officials. Would not have put a penny on us at any odds!
Daly and Goodey class again
Daly and Goodey class again
Wow, that was another squeaky bum time! Immense from the boys - Earl, Dan, Christie, H-H all superb. However, was mightily impressed with subs Tiz, Hallet and Simpson, they made such a difference when we needed it! Good job it is PRC next week so that hopefully we can find some props. Really really sad to see Marco go off, it looks bad and I hope it is not a recurrence of his ACL. All the best Marco.
Incredible game and the belief that seems to permeate through the team is incredible.
MotM performance from both our National and Club captains this weekend for me with Earl not only leading by example but also really actively driving the tempo and lifting the mood of the team.
Lots of quality performances but a few extra words for some of those who stepped up from the wider reaches of the squad today. CH-H continues to impress game after game, Clarey when he came on carried often into contact, not making much ground but committing numerous defenders again and again. Hallett was excellent when he came on and after another excellent performance from Van Zyl I was incredibly impressed that young Simpson from Wuss came on, kept the game flowing and ran and provided great support including taking his try. Lovely hands from Kitchener too for his part in an Earl break.
Also a massive step up from Tizzard. Great workrate and carrying. Mentioned above but Christie also tireless. Maitland with probably his best game in several seasons too.
Just really impressive. For Saints I thought Finn Smith looked incredibly composed given his young age and played really well. He already visibly has "it" IMO in a way Grayson for comparison doesn't. Both Augustus and Salakia-Loto absolute brutes although I did enjoy Augustus skittling our defence till he got to Van Zyl who promptly hauled him to ground!! Talk about giant-slayer.
A word for the referee. I thought Jackson had a good game. I think he made all the big calls right. The second Saints yellow I think was very lucky but he gave a justification and I guess I could see that. Also think ruling out Sarries try for Maitlands grab but not theirs for the ruck clear was right.
The call (or rather lack of) that surprised me is their 7s late shot, shoulder to head, on Hallett in the lead up to an early try. I can't see any mitigation tbh but it wasn't mentioned anywhere so I'm wondering if its just me?? felt like as clear a red as there should have been today.
Lastly, thank goodness for the break but absolutely gutting that Riccioni looks to have reinjured himself. I really hope it isn't bad the guy deserves a bit of fortune. Also hope our LHs are all ok after their HIAs.
MotM performance from both our National and Club captains this weekend for me with Earl not only leading by example but also really actively driving the tempo and lifting the mood of the team.
Lots of quality performances but a few extra words for some of those who stepped up from the wider reaches of the squad today. CH-H continues to impress game after game, Clarey when he came on carried often into contact, not making much ground but committing numerous defenders again and again. Hallett was excellent when he came on and after another excellent performance from Van Zyl I was incredibly impressed that young Simpson from Wuss came on, kept the game flowing and ran and provided great support including taking his try. Lovely hands from Kitchener too for his part in an Earl break.
Also a massive step up from Tizzard. Great workrate and carrying. Mentioned above but Christie also tireless. Maitland with probably his best game in several seasons too.
Just really impressive. For Saints I thought Finn Smith looked incredibly composed given his young age and played really well. He already visibly has "it" IMO in a way Grayson for comparison doesn't. Both Augustus and Salakia-Loto absolute brutes although I did enjoy Augustus skittling our defence till he got to Van Zyl who promptly hauled him to ground!! Talk about giant-slayer.
A word for the referee. I thought Jackson had a good game. I think he made all the big calls right. The second Saints yellow I think was very lucky but he gave a justification and I guess I could see that. Also think ruling out Sarries try for Maitlands grab but not theirs for the ruck clear was right.
The call (or rather lack of) that surprised me is their 7s late shot, shoulder to head, on Hallett in the lead up to an early try. I can't see any mitigation tbh but it wasn't mentioned anywhere so I'm wondering if its just me?? felt like as clear a red as there should have been today.
Lastly, thank goodness for the break but absolutely gutting that Riccioni looks to have reinjured himself. I really hope it isn't bad the guy deserves a bit of fortune. Also hope our LHs are all ok after their HIAs.
....did Jackson make the right call on Goode's vicious charge into Finn Smith?
For me he did. Nothing in it but equally Goode didn't have to follow through. It was silly and we got penalised.
From today, I cant work out whether the rugby gods are with us or against us.
Those whom the gods love, Dai Young.
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
Quote:Eric Browett
....did Jackson make the right call on Goode's vicious charge into Finn Smith?
I think you're missing the sarcasm emoji...
Surely the quote is longer- Those whom the gods love play for Sarries, not Cardiff, Dai Young.
Shocking call against Goodey. Absolutely nothing in it. If the TMO is going to get involved it has to be something worthy of a yellow card. Very similar to one given in the rugby league yesterday which was equally ridiculous
TMOs getting involved seemed to be the theme of the weekend. The most egregious example was Ben Whitehouse who decided to correct the referee that the ball hadn’t been touched in flight by a Kiwi hand. Where was the foul play in that ?
Was not happy with Mr Jackson during the game but having watched it back (didn't think I'd be doing that with 20 mins to go!) I agree with Oldmarovian that he got most calls right apart from the second yellow.
Saints are some team going forward but a totally different team going backwards.
A theme emerging over the weekend from Bath to our game is how the ex Worcester and Wasps players are stepping up in their new colours. Really impressed with Finn Smith who contributed so much more than I saw Biggar do in previous matches against us.
I still don't know quite how we had the belief to turn that round given what happened in the first hour but I guess we should never ever give up in this team!
A speedy recovery for all those injured yesterday on both sides - in particular Riccioni given what he has gone through in the last year or so.
Saints are some team going forward but a totally different team going backwards.
A theme emerging over the weekend from Bath to our game is how the ex Worcester and Wasps players are stepping up in their new colours. Really impressed with Finn Smith who contributed so much more than I saw Biggar do in previous matches against us.
I still don't know quite how we had the belief to turn that round given what happened in the first hour but I guess we should never ever give up in this team!
A speedy recovery for all those injured yesterday on both sides - in particular Riccioni given what he has gone through in the last year or so.
Quote:ComeOnSarries
TMOs getting involved seemed to be the theme of the weekend. The most egregious example was Ben Whitehouse who decided to correct the referee that the ball hadn’t been touched in flight by a Kiwi hand. Where was the foul play in that ?
ABSOLUTELY!! The women did fantastically well and almost pulled off a world cup with 14 women on the pitch. When they look back they should be justifiably proud.
Quote:ComeOnSarries
TMOs getting involved seemed to be the theme of the weekend. The most egregious example was Ben Whitehouse who decided to correct the referee that the ball hadn’t been touched in flight by a Kiwi hand. Where was the foul play in that ?
ABSOLUTELY!! The women did fantastically well and almost pulled off a world cup with 14 women on the pitch. When they look back they should be justifiably proud.
On TMOs, World Rugby issued a protocol earlier this year which is worth reading:
[resources.world.rugby]
While purporting to be supporting the principles for TMOs set out in the Laws, it has introduced the concept of "live referrals" where the assistants or TMO voluntarily or at the request of the referee can provide information to the referee while play continues, and outside the formal TMO review process.
In particular, the TMO may determine which side should throw in at the lineout - whether the ball was touched in flight would be relevant to that.
Getting things like that or offsides referred more accurately without interrupting play to look at the screen should be an improvement to the game.
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
[resources.world.rugby]
While purporting to be supporting the principles for TMOs set out in the Laws, it has introduced the concept of "live referrals" where the assistants or TMO voluntarily or at the request of the referee can provide information to the referee while play continues, and outside the formal TMO review process.
In particular, the TMO may determine which side should throw in at the lineout - whether the ball was touched in flight would be relevant to that.
Getting things like that or offsides referred more accurately without interrupting play to look at the screen should be an improvement to the game.
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
That's very interesting AP. It sounds like it should be a positive as you say.
I find one of the biggest issues is that when Laws are changed/re-interpreted or even they simply decide to enforce them for one weekend no one thinks it's worth the Supporters knowing what's changed.
Like Sully08 I felt at the ground some of the calls were bewildering and the communication as to why or what offences were being penalised without ref mike isn't great. At best you get the a ref popping up on the screen to show what the offence is. I felt it contributed significantly to a somewhat negative crowd feel for much of the early game which was a shame.
Not sure what the solution is there?
I find one of the biggest issues is that when Laws are changed/re-interpreted or even they simply decide to enforce them for one weekend no one thinks it's worth the Supporters knowing what's changed.
Like Sully08 I felt at the ground some of the calls were bewildering and the communication as to why or what offences were being penalised without ref mike isn't great. At best you get the a ref popping up on the screen to show what the offence is. I felt it contributed significantly to a somewhat negative crowd feel for much of the early game which was a shame.
Not sure what the solution is there?
Quote:The Bard
Shocking call against Goodey. Absolutely nothing in it. If the TMO is going to get involved it has to be something worthy of a yellow card. Very similar to one given in the rugby league yesterday which was equally ridiculous
Looking at the protocols (thanks AP that is helpful) the TMO's input is not restricted to yellow card instances of foul play but they have to be clear and obvious (in the sense that they couldn't be refereed any other way) and affect the game. That was not the case here as many refs would have just looked at it and said play on so it really should not have been referred IMO. That kind of interruption in the game is extremely frustrating as a fan and I would say the same if it was the other way round. I think that particular instance led to a try ultimately as well which added to the sense that things were against us at that stage.
Quote:OldMarovian
Lots of quality performances but a few extra words for some of those who stepped up from the wider reaches of the squad today. CH-H continues to impress game after game, Clarey when he came on carried often into contact, not making much ground but committing numerous defenders again and again. Hallett was excellent when he came on and after another excellent performance from Van Zyl I was incredibly impressed that young Simpson from Wuss came on, kept the game flowing and ran and provided great support including taking his try. Lovely hands from Kitchener too for his part in an Earl break.
Also a massive step up from Tizzard. Great workrate and carrying. Mentioned above but Christie also tireless. Maitland with probably his best game in several seasons too.
Great summary. I think CHH is having an amazing season, he’s calling the lineout beautifully and it even functioned really well with 3 lifters gone. I think he’s pushing for a starting place when we are full strength. His height is a great asset and gives another proper jumping option whereas Tizard hasn’t been used much since he joined. Simpson looked great too, I think we should be looking at a long term contract for him if possible.
I agree about Simpson. If anything he looked quicker and more dangerous that Van Zyl and that's high praise lately. I hope we can find a way to retain him as signing him for 2 weeks possibly implies we only have room under the cap for injury cover (Aled being injured while de Haas is away with the USA).
Theo Dan was really impressive carrying in the loose. Based only on yesterday he doesn't seem to pose the danger both Jamie and Woolfie do coming off the back of a maul near the line to crash over and score. I'm sure that will come.
Theo Dan was really impressive carrying in the loose. Based only on yesterday he doesn't seem to pose the danger both Jamie and Woolfie do coming off the back of a maul near the line to crash over and score. I'm sure that will come.
Looking at other boards (Saints in particular) I do like the way so many posters refer to Ben Earl as "Earls". I suppose it can seem like there are two of him!
Keeping Simpson would be nice, but how can we keep him with all the scrummies we already have inc our younger ones in Sam and Charlie.... we will have to let some go and alas it might even be Aled shortly.... he might find it hard to get back in and thats a shame as until the latter part of the season he had ben playing so well..
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Aren't all three scrum-halves likely to be at the end of their contracts this season? Were any described as signing long contracts at the time of signing? So 2 +1s maybe?
Simpson looked great and Van Zyl has been a revelation. Davies is different but too easy to forget how good he has been for Sarries too. Unfortunately the final game probably left a more negative impression than his performances deserve. I've not really seen enough of de Haas.
Who'd be the budget balancer with the number of contracts ending this season.
Simpson looked great and Van Zyl has been a revelation. Davies is different but too easy to forget how good he has been for Sarries too. Unfortunately the final game probably left a more negative impression than his performances deserve. I've not really seen enough of de Haas.
Who'd be the budget balancer with the number of contracts ending this season.
Davies definitely gets too much flak and he’d be loving how we’re playing at the moment, it would suit him to a tee. However he’ll be the wrong side of 30 soon. I think I’d need to see more of Simpson but he looks like he’s got bags of potential on yesterday’s viewing.
Hoping Simpson will get another run out on Saturday but his time might be up already
Simpson was announced as a two week contract and he's now played twice! Assume we will go with Sam Bryan and Charlie Bracken for the Tigers cup game given we've already lost 3/3 it's a dead rubber for us.
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