Leicester Tigers
Wales RWC Preview
By SK88
September 10 2011
As I’m sure Wales are a tad more familiar to you than Russia or Canada I won’t have as much preamble as I have on my other two previews. Wales is of course not a country, only a principality, so really has about as much right to pay international rugby as Catalonia, Cornwall or the Basque Country.
Its close relationship with England can be seen by the number of English born or English parented players; Lydiate (born in Manchester, plus English parent), Warburton (both parents English admits supporting England until he was 16), Davies (born in Solihull), North (born in King’s Lynn) and Charteris (born in Cambourne, Cornwall) are all examples of this. Speaking of non-Welsh born players Manu Tuilagi isn’t the only South Seas Islander making a mark in the British game: Toby Faletau, son of Tongan international Kuli Faletau, is looking likely as Wales’ first choice number 8 after a storming season for Newport and okayish early forays into international rugby.
Wales’ squad is a young one partly through choice, such as Sam Warburton being preferred to Martin Williams and Tavis Knoyle being picked ahead of Dwayne Peel, and partly through injuries such as Matthew Rees having to miss out with a neck injury. Behind Mike Phillips and Huw Bennett Wales look particularly young and inexperienced at both hooker and scrum half, Lloyd Burns and Tavis Knoyle have both come off first seasons as regional first choice to become options at 9, Ken Owens being Rees’ back up at Llanelli and now also for Wales. It is also curiously balanced with three regular number 8s but only one player really capable of playing 7, the captain Sam Warburton. With such a physical pool it seems likely that some injuries will befall them, if say Lydiate and Warburton both picked up knocks they would have to send one home or face off with a Jack Rowell-esque back row of Jones, Powell and Faletau. And people think Johnson’s selections are odd. To go with their young squad they also head out with their youngest ever World Cup captain in the aforementioned English rose Sam Warburton aged 22. I think this might be the youngest ever World Cup captain but am not sure, tell your mates with conviction and they’ll believe you anyway.
Wales Squad:
Forwards:
Props: Gethin Jenkins, Ryan Bevington, Adam Jones, Paul James, Craig Mitchell
Hookers: Lloyd Burns, Huw Bennett, Ken Owens
Locks: Alun Wyn Jones, Bradley Davies, Luke Charteris
Flankers: Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton
No.8s: Ryan Jones, Andy Powell, Toby Faletau.
Backs:
Scrum halfs: Mike Phillips, Lloyd Williams, Tavis Knoyle,
Fly halfs: Stephen Jones, James Hook, Rhys Priestland
Centres: Jamie Roberts, Jonathan Davies, Scott Williams
Wingers: Aled Brew, Shane Williams, George North
Full backs: Lee Byrne, Leigh Halfpenny
Being one of the IRB’s few full voting members Wales unsurprisingly don’t have to deal with the short turnarounds similar standard but less well connected teams do. The shortest gap they have to deal with is 6 days, Monday 26th September to Sunday 2nd October, with the longest being 8 days. This obviously gives an advantage as their full team will be well rested for every game and they can get into a normal weekly cycle, whilst less well connected teams have to deal with 4 day turnarounds and then 10 day rests. I say this every time but it doesn’t get any less disgusting and it won’t change unless it is relentlessly raised and used to embarrass the IRB into reforming into a proper international body not just a commonwealth’s old boys club.
Any way Wales kick off their campaign with South Africa the opponents in the Westpac stadium in Wellington, starting at 9.30 AM British Summer Time. They then face their biggest test against a confident Samoa, fresh from beating Australia, seven days later in Waikato Stadium, Hamilton at a fan friendly time of 4.30 AM BST. I don’t want to tread on the Samoan reviews toes so won’t say too much on this other than that I fancy Samoa to win. Quite why one of the games of the tournament has been scheduled for the middle of the night is beyond me, it’s neither early enough to stay up for and watch when exceedingly drunk nor late enough to get up and watch it live without falling to sleep during the day, especially if you spend Saturday night being anything other than a monk. After this brutal test the Welsh schedule eases up with Namibia on Monday the 26th of September at 7.30 AM BST, no rest for the wicked with Sarries’ Jacques Burger famed for his cuddly soft tackling. Finally the Welsh once again face off against the Flying Fijians. Last World Cup this was probably the best group game and I have high hopes again. Traditionally the Welsh struggle when coming up against a team that will run the ball from anywhere, as it hurts their pride and belief that such tactics are the “Welsh Way” they copy them and are then exposed as none of the Welsh teams actually play like that because it isn’t very effective when countered with a big pack kicking the corners. Whether Warren Gatland will convince the Welsh to stick to the game plan will only be revealed in the heat of the battle. The game is on Sunday the 2nd of October starting at 6 AM BST.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:22:13:09:13 by Stephen Bath.
Many thanks to everyone !!
That apart, thanks for taking the trouble to write this.
Wales back row might have looked more balanced but put Moody into ours and take Warburton out of Wales theirs and it would look completely different. Both have only gone for one seven but ours is injured and theirs isn't. As I say Wales have gone for a baffling back row balance with three 8s plus two flankers who have played 8 yet no real cover for their 7.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:12:08:17:28 by Parma Jack.
Interesting after yesterday - what did that tell us? That South Africa really aren't very good (and Wales still lost)? That Wales do a good line in looking good (and losing)? That Wales like complaining about games after the result? That if I were Fiji or Samoa I'd quite fancy this group?
...
Francois eventually said something along the lines of 'i'd rather win' and then elaborated that the if a team he was in lost like Wales did he'd be furious at the missed opportunity and inconsolable, not 'looking at the positives' and 'glad they put on a good show'.
when du Plessis came on the game went Green and Gold.
Good effort by Wales but they ought to have put the Boks away well before then. They were opposed by Barnes though, who helped SAf when he could.
Quote:SK 88
Wales is as much a seperate country from England as the Basques and the Catalans are from spain/france.
You could equally well invert that and say England is as much a separate country from Wales as the Basques and the Catalans are from Spain/France. In which case, following your logic, England would have about as much right to pay international rugby as Catalonia, Cornwall or the Basque Country.
There can a difference between a nation and a sovereign state. The word nation can refer to people bound into a single state, but not in all of its meanings (Collins Dictionary and Thesaurus - nation: 2. a community of persons not constituting a state but bound by common descent, language, history etc.). Think about "The 6 Nations".
Where is it written that only separate sovereign states (of which England isn't one anyway) should only be able to play sports at international level? After all, Wales (and England for that matter) have separate teams for Rugby League and Association Football too.
Sorry to be a pain (and I appreciate your great review) but I just think this should be commented on.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:13:08:27:26 by Parma Jack.
Maybe 'England' really has no business playing international sport aas a seperate entity.
Not a view I subscribe to especially - I like the historical grounds for this. They are pretty much the foundations of all international sport. But I can understand why other countries/nations/states oppose the idea.
...
The only other non-Sovereign state with an international team affiliated to the governing body that I can think of off-hand is the Faroe Islands footie team. Though independant countries which are much smaller than Wales have international teams (e.g. San Marino). Though I still can't see why independance should be a pre-requisite of international representation...
And as far as rugby is concerned, think what would happen to the game world-wide if all UK teams became one.
My main point though is that it's not that Wales have little right to an international team any more than England.
...
New Caledonia is still currently part of the French Republic as a special collectivity but has a national rugby union team and a FIFA-affiliated national football team.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:13:12:30:04 by Parma Jack.
Wales now has National Assembly for Wales which is a devolved assembly with power to make legislation in Wales. It's called the "National Assembly" because it's the Assembly of the Welsh Nation. It can legislate in a number of areas without having to consult the UK parliament, nor the Secretary of State for Wales.
Since the EU now legislates in many areas for its member states and those in the euro-zone no longer have sovreignty over fiscal policy, perhaps we should just have one EU team in the RWC instead of England, France, Romania and all the others.
As to Wales never having been a country, my dictionary tells me that a country is: "a territory distinguished by its people, culture, geography etc.". So even today (according to one definition of the word), it is.
Having said all that, I guess we can take some of your comments with a pinch of salt in that they surely must simply be a wind-up.
A question for you, though. In your opinion, should, say La Réunion, Martinique and Mayotte be able to have national teams and international rugby?
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:13:13:27:00 by Parma Jack.
Yeah that's great logic lets have Prussia vs. Bavaria as well.
As I say if Wales has the right to play international sport why not the Basque Country?
I don't see why we get special treatment the UK is one country and should be treated as such.
To be honest International sport is an increasingly problematical thing in a world of mass migration and mobile populations in the end I'm not wholly convinced what it's long term future is. Anomolies like this - interesting though they are - probably only emphasise the point.
...
Quote:SK 88
So because wales was a seperate country in the middle ages it desereves an international team?
Er...no, I didn't say that, so you might think it's "great logic" but it's not my logic. I was merely correcting your statement that Wales had never been a separate country, by pointing out that they had been politically separate centuries ago (since you seem to equate nation/country solely with political separation).
This isn't why Wales should be able to have a separate team though. Wales - like England - should be able to have a separate team because they are geographically, and arguably culturally (not to mention to a certain level linguistically) a separate nation/country (in accordance with some of the definitions of "nation" and "country" that exist in the English Language). Also because historically, at a sporting level, for several sports, they have always been separate.
As regards your question : "if Wales has the right to play international sport why not the Basque Country?", I take it you would equally think: "if England has the right to play international sport why not the Basque Country?" and that you feel that there should be one UK team. So why suggest in your review that it's Wales that has little right to international rugby, rather than the UK that shouldn't have separate teams?
And why not the Basque country, if they wanted? There is a Basque Nation which transcends the French and Spanish geopolitical borders. As I've previously asked, "Where is it written that a country should be a separate political entity (i.e. a separate sovereign state) to be able to have a national team?" What has one got to do with the other?
As for the UK getting special treatment... No. It doesn't. In terms of football and rugby union (to name but two sports) the member countries have always been separate nations - (with Northern Ireland and the Republic playing together for rugby). In terms of sporting culture they are too. If England are playing France many Welsh or Scots root for France - and I know a few English who like to see Wales or Scotland lose. And why shouldn't they, since rugby-wise there is no UK identity? Sure, there are the Lions and a great thing they are too but they include Ireland, and all the different nationalities (English, Scots, Welsh, Irish) come together to support them, as different nationalities do for the Pacific Islanders or the Baa-Baas.
The first ever international rugby union match was England v Scotland in 1871. The Welsh Ruugby Union was formed in 1883 and they played in the Home Championsgip two years later. So there is precedence, not to mention a long and glorious tradition of separate teams and identity. Then over a 120 years later, you express the opinion that it's not right because having a national team should be based on political separation. Well, everyone's entitled to their opinion so fair enough, but it's not mine.
So can we assume then, that in your opinion it's not right that La Réunion, Martinique and Mayotte all have national rugby union teams, because they're all Overseas Departments and Regions of France (included in France's 27 Régions, like Rhône-Alpes, Haute-Normandie etc.)?
After arguing this point with you so much I do hope you'll be coming to Monza for the HC match against Aironi Rugby so that I can at least buy you a beer or two....
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:15:09:54:11 by Parma Jack.
One Cetlic team comprising the Jocks, Irish, Welsh, Cornish, and Bretons*. (*apologies if I forgot any others)
Now that I would pay to watch!
Coops
WTF
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:14:13:41:21 by Parma Jack.
Or just imagine if NZ became politically part of Australia, would you still want to play the All Blacks?
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