1. The Development

Even if you haven't been to the exhibition it's easy enough to picture the proposed Stand -  essentially it's just like the East Stand: single tier, front loading, line of corporate boxes at the top.  Inside there's a Members' Bar (about the size of the Kings bar) lots of corporate facilities and space for admin and players. For the interested there are facts and figures on the Official Site.

Having seen the exhibition, spoken to the team there, and read back through the message boards, here's what I see as the main talking points -  from the fans perspective

1.1 The Promenade

To the consternation of many fans the new stand, like the East, is front-loading and features a walkway along the front where lingering pedestrians can restrict  the view from  the lower seats. This is a much-discussed feature on CAW...at least by those that sit in them.

It's a topic I discussed with Mark Evans earlier in the week (you can read his views in full  here on CAW)  Essentially: a rear-loading stand would have been preferred, but was ruled out by reason of height and cost.  However, the hope is that the much narrower walkway, and limited bar facilities in the West  will mean fewer people lingering in the way.  Meanwhile over on the East, the increased capacity of the ground should mean that fewer people will choose to sit in the lower seats anyway. This makes sense to me.

On the boards a few radical solutions have been offered to the problem but, attractive though it sounds, I think we can dismiss the idea of lowering the walkway -  I can't see how it could be lowered more than 50cm without causing considerable access problems, and I can't see that 50cm would provide enough benefit for the considerable expense.

An alternative point of view, though, is that the walkway is actually a tremendously good thing.  When you think about it, one of the best things about the Stoop is that the Craic is inside the ground...which is far preferable to, for instance, the Craic-Round-the-Back at the RFU, or the Craic-in-the-Carpark at the Madjeski.  

So, while sympathetic to cheap-seaters, I'm actually pleased we've retained the freedom to move around the stadium, and sociability of having somewhere to gather pre and post-game. Where else can you see a scene like this, . The walkway is part of this, and big  part of the Stoop experience

What do you think?  On this talking point, and on all the others, we've set up a survey where you can post  your own views - there's a link at the end of the article.

1.2 No Standing in the Stand

A real disappointment to many is the lack of any facility for standing in the West Stand - many had hoped for a few rows at the front (which, interestingly, also mitigates the walkway problem). But there's none.

In fact it's worse than that - the new design, with all four sides of the ground completely built up, and limited corner spaces, basically means the end of any standing at the Stoop.

Why have we gone for that design?  I asked the team at this evening's event, and the answer was a slightly disappointing:  'it wasn't in the brief'.  Why not? Well, it's a topic I neglected to ask Mark Evans about last week, but I speculate the the answer is two-fold - height, and atmosphere. 

By height I mean that it's impossible to introduce standing without either increasing the overall height of the Stand, or reducing the capacity. The height of the stand is limited - the general view is that anything higher than the East Stand will never get planning permission, and probably quite rightly so, as it would be too big for the site. Capacity is vital for the financial case. Furthermore by sticking to the East Stand height, we've got a precedent to help with approval.

By atmosphere, I'm referring to the difference in the 'feel' of a ground that standing brings on - in previous articles  I've discussed the different atmosphere that pertains at Gloucester - a standing crowd is a more adult, more male crowd, and that's at odds with the family-centric atmosphere and values of Quins. I speculate that a seated stadium is more in-line with what Quins are trying to achieve.

Will there ever be standing at the Stoop? I think the only chance might be in a new South Stand, which is clearly some way off

What do you think? Do you think standing is a big loss to the Ground? Give your views in the poll.

1.3 The Bars

My view? I think it's inevitable. There's simply no way I can envisage sacrificing valuable revenue-earning Corporate space for a bar. Expecting anything else is fruitless.

However one idea immediately occurs to me in compensation - what about a Members Bar with a state-of-the art, very large, integrated big screen in one wall?  This screen could even relay pictures from the Sky cameras, or other cameras  that are almost always present (and I think we'll see increasing coverage of games) to provide the next-best-thing to a live view

Expensive? Yes, but a big, impressive screen would also be an asset in the corporate market making the West Stand a possible venue for larger conferences, exhibitions etc, as well as an attractive asset when entertaining at RFU events.

Another side effect of the new Members' Bar is likely to be a new definition of Membership.  Speaking last weekend Mark Evans told me he thought it was about time the concept was rethought for the modern era. I'm sure this is a topic we'll return to on CAW.

My only worry with the bars is: is there enough of them?  One advantage of the new development is that the Colours Bar will be freed up for use by the public, but on the other hand we'll lose the IPA tent.  Observing how crowded the bar was last weekend I was suddenly not at all convinced that the new plans provide enough capacity, over all, for 12,500 people. Certainly it seems to me that the Members' Bar is going to have to be accessible to a quite a large number of us if it's to pay its way.  And the Debenture holders' bar is also interesting - are there really less than 300 Debenture Holders? Does it make financial sense to reserve such a large space for them?

Finally, reflecting on what Mark had said, I also suddenly remembered the other use that the Colours Bar is put to - for the players to eat in. I hope don't lose that: the accessibility of the players is a precious thing at the Stoop, and adds a lot to the atmosphere and feel of the place.

1.4 Disabled Facilities

At first sight, the facilities for the disabled looked to me impressive - there is space for 39 Wheelies, which seemed a good allocation, on top of the space on the East Stand. 

On further consideration, however, and reading the comments on the boards there is room for improvement.

The main problem is location: the spaces are all at ground level. This means that the walkway is potentially a real problem - the average wheel chair user being lower in their chair than the first row of seats, which is on a step.  We asked the team who were hosting the exhibition, and it didn't really seem that this had been given much thought: "It's where the wheel-chairs always are in Stadiums" was the (rather lame) answer. However it's difficult to see what can be done at this late stage. Certainly a 50cm platform isn't going to work - unless you took the first row of seats out.

However the development team did offer up that there is some consideration of setting up a wheelchair unit at the top, in front of the boxes.  But again this seemed unlikely: I couldn't see how a row of chairs can be fitted in, and anyway I can't see how ordinary, and potentially betrewsed, fans can easily mix with the corporate types - the single lift delivers it's occupants right smack into the corporate reception.

2 Ramifications

The developments in the West and North have a number of knock on impacts. I've mentioned bar space already...but there are others

2.1 Mighty Quins Village

The MQV is an almost unique institution at ZP clubs. From previous discussions on the board I know it's hard for those without kids to appreciate the enormous significance and positive impact it has on the match day experience of those that do.  At the beginning of this season there was much consternation simply when it moved. Amongst the parents of the U7s at my club, the new habit this season of closing 10 mins before the game ends is still a subject of discussion.

In short it's a tremendous asset, and key part of the family strategy - for those with kids under 10, anyway.

In the new world the future is uncertain. Mark Evans told me last week they hadn't really considered it, and the team hosting the exhibition last night hadn't even heard of it.   The likeliest thing is that it will move behind the South Stand, but this raises all sorts of questions of safety, accessibility and visibility.  Still, I believe Northampton's equivalent is  also behind the stand, and I look forward to seeing that on May 8 to see how it works.

The only alternative I could see is - inside the West Stand itself.  The Club are currently considering alternative uses for the Office space in the stand. A new, indoor, MQV immediately spring to mind - and a great thing about this is that it's multi-use - the equipment can always be cleared away for other uses.  I don't suppose it generates much revenue though....but it would be warm and dry.....

How big a loss is the MQV?  Is it acceptable to have it behind the stand? Is it a good use of precious indoor space?

2.2 Enclosures

A new stand provides a one-off opportunity to rethink the seating policy, to create specific zones for specific types of fans.

The most obvious idea is a Family Area - one or two blocks designated for people with kids. It's something done at many other grounds, and is quite popular, especially for those with very young kids.  If the MQV is behind the South Stand, the Family Block would be in the SW corner.  If was within the stand, the Family block would be above the entrance.

Personally, I'm not keen - I think that the opportunity to experience quite an adult atmosphere, in a safe environment, is valuable for children, and I don't think my family would choose to sit in a Family Enclosure. But  what do you think?  Especially those with families? 

The second idea that comes up regularly from the fans is a 'Bull-Pen'. By which I mean, a noisy area : an area where those who want to bang their drums, blow their horns and sing the Mighty Quinn can sit together.  The new North Stand might be ideal.

The reasoning is two-fold: you create a concentrated noise (which might be infectious) and you spare the poor bloke who sits next to Melvin :-)

Is it a good idea? Personally, I think not - I'm a  mingler - there would be no reserve areas in my ideal stadium. but what do you think? - Would you want to sit in it? Would you like to sit away from it?

2.3 Capacity

This is a fundamental issue to grapple with that  I don't think has really been considered enough on the boards yet: is the Stoop actually going to be big enough?

The current development yields 12,500. Mark Evans revealed last week that even in the long term the constraints that we're under - height of stands, budget, size of site, design of East and West,  mean that the capacity of the Stoop, with new North, West and eventually South Stand will be only 14,000.

Is that big enough? Could we find that we build the Stand, and then five years in we're full again?   Mark was sanguine about this risk - and with crowds currently only around the 8,000 mark he clearly has a point - there's a long way to go yet. 

But on the other hand, given some success on the pitch, if we remain the only club in London, if the current buzz around the club continues, you don't have to be a wild optimist to envisage crowds of 14,000 at least some of the time....maybe much of the time. 

If you thought that within - say - five years we'd be sold out again.... well you'd have to wonder whether investment in the Stoop is worth it. Should we even consider the almost unmentionable  nuclear option:  moving out now?

3. Funding Issues

The plans are costed at £8m. That's a lot of money by anyone's reckoning. The club reckon to have £4-5m covered, leaving a shortfall of £3-4m, and to raise that, they propose to sell the Training Ground behind the East stand.

3.1 Sale of Training Pitch

This is something we've discussed at length on the board so I won't reiterate, except to say that I still think it's a big loss  - albeit one that many of the regulars here don't recognise. If there turned out to be a way to develop without selling it, I'd rejoice.  If there's no alternative, and if it's sold, I can see the logic - but I'll mourn nonetheless. And the council-owned Craneford Way pitch may not always be there to make up.

The big question though, and the ace in the Club's hand, is - what's the alternative? Is there one?   Of course I can't answer that, but in the next section I've listed some of the alternative sources I imagine the Club will have considered and indeed used, before reaching the decision to sell

My views are known. Some of you agree, I know others think I'm making a mountain out of a molehill. What do you think? Is this an important issue, or a mere distraction over a piece of underutilised land?

3.2 Alternative Funding

So how might  a small, loss-making business, in an unpredictable and new industry go about raising £8m?  

First let's be clear - I don't know what solutions the Club has found, but I imagine it's a combination of  some or many odf these general options

1. Borrow. Clearly the simplest and most straightforward. A bank loan or a bond issue, secured on the ground. Potentially expensive, especially if the bank perceives us as riskier than most (hence the importance of clear water between us and the relegation zone)
2. Dilution of equity. For those of you not in the finance industry - this means sell shares. If you own 100% of  £10m business you can double the number of shares and own 50% of a £20m business. Of course this means loss of control - unless you sell a small amount....but who would buy a small amount?  People buy rugby clubs to control them. Perhaps not a great option for us.
3. Ask for more money from the owner (perhaps as a loan). The Press release noted that . "The Club is only able to continue operating because of private investment by the Club’s owners, which is clearly an untenable situation".  I infer from that, that this option isn't wide open for us.
4. Borrow via securitisation of revenues. This is a very interesting one. (Those of you with no financial interest may skip to point 5!)  The principal here is that you borrow money (in the form of a bond issue) where the repayments are not in the form of interest, but are a share of the revenues of the project (ie a share of ticket sales). Or a mixture of both. 
   This has the tremendous attraction of passing on risk - if the Club don't sell many tickets (e.g. if we got relegated) then we don't pay much interest. Of course the converse is also true - if the project booms, then the lenders benefit, and the cost of funds is high. This is a mechanism that's widely used in the last few years - famously by David Bowie - that is intriguing.

The options above are standard for most businesses. Being a Sports Club offers a few more

5. Raise money from fans. This would be in the form of selling debentures, or starting some sort of Trust. This option isn't to be sneezed at - 500 Debentures at £5000 is £2.5m. The trust option is also interesting.  For instance a scheme could work as follows: for £500 you might get a combination things that are valuable to a fan - but cheap to the club (this is a fund-raising thing). Eg
   - your name inscribed on the benefactors' wall in the new bar
   - invitation to the launch party in the new stand
   - priority choice of seats for season tickets
   - a single share in the Ltd Co that is the club, so that you are genuinely a co-owner
   - once a season hospitality, ata discount, on an exclusive Trust-members match day in the new Lounges
   - 5 years membership of the Club
   OK - it's not, in cold reckoning, worth £500 - but it's a chance to part of something, and the loyalty of fans shouldn't be underestimated. Would you buy something like this?
6. A Grant from the proposed Rugby Foundation. Alas this looks like being to late for us...but you never know.
7. Getting wilder - could we  develop the pitch as a training/sporting venue in order to bring in revenue (rent to  the College after they've sold off their pitches, rent to the new school proposed on the Mereway Allotment site, to local rugby clubs, like Thamesian rugby, to other sporting clubs. To the Cannons Gym even. Project like this attract Sport England grants

These are the sorts of options that the Club will have considered and ruled out as an alternative to selling the land.  No doubt some are impractical, others expensive, and none viable on their own. No doubt a number of them are indeed being used.

4. Planning Climate

In the excitement, it's easy to see  there's still some major hurdles to cover - not least is whether the Club will actually get permission.  The signs are good - but it's certainly not a shoe-in

4.1 The Stand

The stand itself looks to me to be the easy part, and the key is precedent -  the Stand is very, very similar to the East Stand, for which permission was granted, and this creates an excellent precedent. (this is not an accident!).  Most importantly it's the same height - and a sensible one  for the locality.

Also, the increase in capacity is only modest, and my feeling is that the council will be sympathetic to the idea of a 12,500 capacity stadium - they are committed to the idea of having a ZP Club in the Borough.

4.2. The Housing Development

4.3 The good news

The thing that will work in the Club's favour is that it enjoys (I believe) very favourable relations with the local community, including the Council.  This is a tribute both the Community Programme  - in Clubs, schools, youth groups etc, and also, of course in the match day experience - local people go to the Stoop and enjoy it.  This is very noticeable to me. Five years ago our family used to go and see no one we knew. Now we meet school friends and neighbours every game,

4.4 Bad news

This was followed by an appeal all the way to the Secretary of State for the Environment to get permission for concerts, completely against the wishes of the locals and the Council.

Added to that is the trend for kick-offs at unsociable hours, matches on three consecutive Saturdays in December, and experiments with open air sound systems, all of which engender hostile reactions.  All this is nothing to do with Quins, but nevertheless can engender a feeling of 'how much rugby can we take?'

4.4 The Context

On top of this, Quins fans should understand the planning context. The Stoop is part of an extensive area of Metropolitan Open Land (you can't easily build on it) but now all of which is threatened by development. The public enquiry reports in the next few weeks and if, as some expect, the MOL designation is rescinded, residents may be faced with the destruction of large parts of the green-field land around - potentially any or all of these could happen

• the College will move where the sorting office is, and the College site will all become houses
• the new school will be built on the Mereway allotments
• the depot could re-locate and the existing site will become....you guessed it, houses

In the worst case, an applications go in for all these schemes (or similar) you can expect residents to launch strong objections to all the building projects hoping to win some and lose some - and who could blame them?

Added to that, of course is the normal concerns about traffic and access, and the effect of 90 new homes. The traffic congestion we experienced on Saturday won't have gone unnoticed - and we can expect three more sell-out games, at least, before the end of the season.

4.5 Affordable Housing

Lastly, a quick note about another potential hurdle - affordable housing. It's an odd thing, affordable housing. The Council will certainly require the development to include some, but this has an unwelcome side effect. The development is an enabler that must raise £3m.  The more affordable housing is included, the more units must be built to raise the same money, therefore the more green space is lost, and/or the higher the blocks of flats become..... and the more troublesome the design becomes for planning.

In all the Club are facing some considerable hurdles before they are home and dry.

5 Find out More

This has been quite a long article, but if you're still keen to find out more there are some sources

5.1 Exhibition

First the exhibition. Actually it's only a collection of architects drawings - all labelled "Harlequins Rugby Club" (sic) thus demonstrating the intimate knowledge and 'feel' for the club possessed by the architects, Rude and Wilkinshaw. (or something). 

The drawings don't show you much you haven't seen already, but they are big, and in attendance are some staff from the "Development Management" firm who are very helpful and keen to engage in discussion.  (They wouldn't reveal how much of the £8m goes to them, though).  If you live locally, I'd recommend a visit.

5.2 More Sources

There's also lots in the Jester, and on the Official Website. And of course, Come All Within will keep you appraised of all developments.

6 Feedback

6.1 How can you provide feedback?

The Club have set up a formal mechanism:

Please contact Paul Vicary or Daniel Knight at the West Stand
Project Office on 020 8410 6049 or send an e-mail to weststand@quins.co.uk .

The bad news is that  Paul and Daniel (if indeed it was they) told DOK and I this evening that at least three-quarters of the emails they have received to that address have been corrupted and unreadable, which is a little inconvenient to say the least.

The good news is  they both confessed to monitoring closely the debate on Come All Within, so what better place to post your comments than here on the message board?

And of course you can fill in our poll, testing you views on all the issues in this article. The survey is here the results are here

6.2 Will they listen?

What's not clear though, is how much room there really is for change.

Personally I get the impression that the Club are more than willing to listen, and to consider anything that's reasonable - but realistically the application's due to be submitted in just a few weeks and no fundamental changes are going to be possible.  If I'm disappointed, it's because this consultation period should have taken place six months ago.

And Finally

Summing up, it's an impressive development, and a major project for the Club. For Saville, Jilling and Evans it's clearly the biggest thing they've done at Quins - up to now it's been essentially an operation of stabilisation, repair and renewal .  This is different - it's a step change for the club and the start of a new era which could eventually enable us to rival the Leicesters and Toulouse of the world.  I don't think any Quins fan can be anything but fully behind these objectives, and in broad support of what the Club's trying to achieve.