“To reduce Tom Williams’ sentence, they (ERC) had to accept the allegation that Richards ran a bullying regime.  That upset the coaches as they would have had to be part of that and they weren’t.”  Also, with his obvious legal expertise, Brian takes a dim view of ERC’s procedures, namely that the substance of the allegations against Richards were put forward on the Friday before the Monday hearing which, in effect, gave him no time to prepare a proper defence for cross examination.  As he pointed out to one rather worried-looking audience member: in a court of law you wouldn’t be allowed to ask a defendant about their sheep-shagging proclivities if you hadn’t any evidence to put forward to back it up.  He said that he’s been accused of being a smart-arsed lawyer, but that is not the case.  “It’s got to be done properly.  If you’re going to get f***ed, you want it to be done properly.”  I think we were still talking about ERC!!    He said that privately other disciplinary officers had been scathing about what had happened but that he couldn’t say any more than that.

 

Brian went on to say that he wasn’t surprised that the RFU’s investigation into similar doings unturned no evidence.  After all, which player was going to be first to spill the beans?  “But Quins got caught, and in such a way.  You could perhaps laugh off a blood capsule but the problem is the cutting and the attempts to cover that up.  Other things then come into play.  When you are trouble, don’t pass the ball backwards – you’ll end up in a worse mess.  If you lie beyond the first lie you’re going to be in much bigger trouble.  Dean was concerned about protecting the doctor.  If he had asked me I would have said, ‘you can’t do that’.  If you weren’t there you are going to get tarred with the same brush.  It was bad decision upon bad decision.”

 

Was it an Irish conspiracy?  “I’d like to say ‘yes’, but there’s no evidence.  It must have helped that Leinster was a Dublin province and the ERC’s offices are in Dublin, and it was talked about all over the place . . .” 

 

Given that there was an amnesty for players who came forward to report similar goings on at international level, Brian was asked if he’d come across anything similar in his playing days.  “The blood rule was introduced in 1991 and it came in because of AIDS and it’s wrong.  It shouldn’t be there.  But it’s stupid that people feel they have to fake blood to get more time to get someone assessed.  You either take your chances with 14 men or you go to rolling subs.   When I played, if you got stitched you had to go off.  In Paris I got trodden on and I needed six stitches.  It took 2-3 minutes to get to the changing rooms at the Parc des Princes so I said to put them in at the side of the pitch.  The doctor didn’t want to do it without anaesthetic but I just said ‘f***ing do it’.”   He used this to explain how people react to different types of pressure.  The doctor at the Parc des Princes should definitely not have been putting in stitches pitch-side with no local, but he did because he got sworn at by an England hooker who wanted to get back on that pitch as soon as possible to annoy 15 Frenchmen.   In the case of Dr Wendy Chapman, the fact that she works in A&E and has to deal with all sorts of cases, including those that are life-threatening, means that she can handle pressure.  The parameters are changed, however, when that pressure is coming from a different place as it was in the medical/changing rooms of the Stoop last April.   Brian believes that she will have a hard time at the GMC and that public opinion will be an important factor which will almost certainly be taken into account when deciding what punishment to give her.  “For her (Wendy) the best thing will be a long delay before the hearing.”

 

So, how is Dean?  “He’s OK.  He’s very private.  I know which village he lives in but I don’t know his address.  He’s not got enough money to retire.  He was fairly shell-shocked for a while.  I tried to offer comfort but he knows that I think he was stupid.  I don’t feel sorry for him but I know he got caught doing something that I know others are doing.”