Shine on the Right
A Chance to Shine
Shine on the Right
By Comebackgatt
November 14 2008
Comebackgatt has raided his own archive to unearth a rare interview with Kevin Shine from 1994, when Shine first joined Middlesex. The interview contains some fascinating insights. Many thanks to CBG for unearthing and transcribing this radio interview.
Shine on the Right
November 14 2008
Comebackgatt has raided his own archive to unearth a rare interview with Kevin Shine from 1994, when Shine first joined Middlesex. The interview contains some fascinating insights. Many thanks to CBG for unearthing and transcribing this radio interview.
Foreword
This interview was recorded for Hospital Radio back in 1994, Kevin Shine who had just joined us kindly agreed to talk to me at Uxbridge during a Pre season friendly .
I feel I should point out that he had no idea of the questions I was about to put to him, so sometimes hesitated and also repeated himself as people do in a normal speech pattern. I have typed it out exactly as it sounded on tape.
The Interview
CBG: Kevin, how did you come to join Middlesex?
KS: Well I have had 8 years at Hampshire and I felt it I was stagnating a little bit and I’ve got ambitions to play for England, I feel that there aren’t too many genuine quick bowlers about, and when it came to the time to make the decision Mike Gatting said all the right things to me. I wanted to come to a successful county, and I really like the way they play. I’ve played against Middlesex on a number of occasions and I really like the way they play the game, they are a professional unit. With my ambitions to play for England I felt they were the right county to join and I am really looking forward to playing under Mike Gatting who I admire greatly as a player and a Captain.
CBG: You are joining a team that won the County Championship last season, so you will need to displace players such as Norman Cowans, Gus Fraser and Neil Williams, you must be looking forward to the challenge.
KS: I hope to start the season in the first team, as I say I am a genuine strike bowler, there aren’t too many of them around in the country but I realise I’ve got to fight for my place, obviously with a county like Middlesex it is a talented squad of players and everybody has to fight for their place. Hopefully, if I bowl quickly and consistently I will get the chance and then it is up to me to take that chance, it’s a fight, county cricket it’s a fight.
CBG: What are your personal feelings about Four Day cricket? It obviously suited Middlesex last season, but what are your thoughts?
KS: The Four day game does suit me a lot better. Being a strike bowler I tend not to think too much about runs, concentrating on taking wickets, and if I get the chance to bowl at someone in the longer game it gives me the chance to run in and get a steady rhythm. I think it is better suited to the bowler, you get the chance to swing it, or you get the chance to bowl with real pace to give yourself the best opportunity to take wickets. I consider myself pretty fit and can bowl long spells with real pace. Certainly last season was a learning curve for most bowlers but I really enjoyed it.
CBG: You made your debut for Hampshire against Middlesex at Lord’s and I remember clearly you coming out to bat with Hants in real trouble and scoring a quick fire 26 not out.
KS; Yes, I remember that well. I think in my first five balls I hit four of them to the boundary all from the bowling of Norman Cowans, not easy that. With the ball I was very nervous, I had never bowled at Lord’s before and I found it difficult coping with the slope. John Carr was my first first class wicket and I still have the bail. I broke the bail and Dickie Bird kept that for me and I’ve still got that at home
CBG: Many thanks Kevin for your time, and I like to wish you well at Middlesex.
Afterword
Kevin made his debut in the opening match of the season as Middlesex, as current Champions , played the season opener against England A. He took 4-79 in the first innings of the match; these were to turn out to be his best figures for the county. He stayed two seasons, taking 29 wickets in 13 matches in 1994 but only played twice the next year picking up a further 13 victims. At the end of that season he joined Somerset where he stayed for a further there years before retiring to become Head Coach at Taunton. He never fulfilled his ambition to play for England, but in Feb 2006 he was appointed bowling coach for his country before being replaced by Alan Donald.
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StumbleuponA Chance to Shine
Posted by: Middlesex till we die (IP Logged)
Date: 14/11/2008 19:24
A Chance to Shine
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: BarmierKev (IP Logged)
Date: 14/11/2008 21:56
Fascinating stuff. Safe to say he didn't fulfil his ambition.
My memory of Shine was poaching our players from Somerset.
Many thanks CBG for a good piece-well dug out.
Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele
My memory of Shine was poaching our players from Somerset.
Many thanks CBG for a good piece-well dug out.
Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2008 17:38
Yep Seems your players took a Shine to him (sorry) because they came our way for quite a while. Keith and Richard did well and were firm favourites with the crowds.
We're having the same conversation down here - excellent bit of digging by CBG. Having seen Kev, who had his moments admitedly, his aspirations were probably a little above his capabilities.
But always struck me as a decent fella and got the poisoned chalice down here courtesy of Dermot Reeve and his media aspirations.
Kev was underestimated as a coach. He did a lot while DR was head coach (we tended to be able to hear him on the ground through the magic of radio from the TMS Test somewhere) while Dermot was over estimated by the same people - he was hardly here in his last season when we won something.
By no means a Head coach (the job he inherited and probably hated) but he was a fair specialist coach and one Richard Johnson got a second England chance because of working with him and his video system.
Never really sure how Kev got into the England frame but it could have been his big interest in the technology that got him there and he was grade 4 qualified.
Happy and unhappy times at Taunton all in all
We're having the same conversation down here - excellent bit of digging by CBG. Having seen Kev, who had his moments admitedly, his aspirations were probably a little above his capabilities.
But always struck me as a decent fella and got the poisoned chalice down here courtesy of Dermot Reeve and his media aspirations.
Kev was underestimated as a coach. He did a lot while DR was head coach (we tended to be able to hear him on the ground through the magic of radio from the TMS Test somewhere) while Dermot was over estimated by the same people - he was hardly here in his last season when we won something.
By no means a Head coach (the job he inherited and probably hated) but he was a fair specialist coach and one Richard Johnson got a second England chance because of working with him and his video system.
Never really sure how Kev got into the England frame but it could have been his big interest in the technology that got him there and he was grade 4 qualified.
Happy and unhappy times at Taunton all in all
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: Ged (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2008 07:57
This feature has generated far more discussion on Grockles than it has on MTWD, strangely:
Discussion on Grockles
I seem to recall in the dim and distant past (before my moderating days) Janet being maligned on MTWD for using the term "poacher" to describe Kevin Shine. Now the term seems to have slipped into received wisdom and even fellow moderators use the term with impunity.
I'm sure there is no suggestion that Shine did anything untoward, is there?
Discussion on Grockles
I seem to recall in the dim and distant past (before my moderating days) Janet being maligned on MTWD for using the term "poacher" to describe Kevin Shine. Now the term seems to have slipped into received wisdom and even fellow moderators use the term with impunity.
I'm sure there is no suggestion that Shine did anything untoward, is there?
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2008 11:29
Not from our side Ged. We usually put it in inverted commas because it was yours and we wouldn't want to poach the term as well!
We did seem to have a Middlesex motorway to Taunton but it all seemed to be players deciding rather than incentives being offered. We haven't got the money!
I suppose it was a coach going where he knew looking for players looking for a change. Johnson was attracted by the prospect of bowling with Caddick I think. Dutchy because there was no spinner here at the time (Blackwell was dobbling off no run up then) and therefore lots of first team cricket. Did Laraman come from you? Kev saw a great international future for him - can't say anyone else really had that vision.
It tends to happen in a number of sports though doesn't it? A coach comes to a club and some of his ex compadres seem to make their way to the same place over a period of time.
There are uncoonfirmed rumours that it caused friction within the Somerset dressing room for a period of time with the 'Middlesex Mafia' exerting pressure but they all seemed good guys to us boundary huggers. Dutchy went under a bit of an unexplained cloud but he was a real favourite while here and left me with some of my best cricketing memories of the last decade.
Johno was just awesome when fit and in full flight - loads of 'if onlys' with him - an inswinging yorker to die for!
Kev was quite pacey when he first came and watching him with Andre Van Troost at the other end who was rocket fuelled was an interesting experience.
Aaron promised but delivered in fits between injury bouts and I've no idea what happened to him after leaving here. We still seem to be looking at you occasionally even though the 'Poacher' has gone. Langer came of his own accord and if we go back so did Graham Rose (one of the unsung allrounders without an England cap - travesty) a long time ago.
You call it 'poaching' we call it 'peachy'
We did seem to have a Middlesex motorway to Taunton but it all seemed to be players deciding rather than incentives being offered. We haven't got the money!
I suppose it was a coach going where he knew looking for players looking for a change. Johnson was attracted by the prospect of bowling with Caddick I think. Dutchy because there was no spinner here at the time (Blackwell was dobbling off no run up then) and therefore lots of first team cricket. Did Laraman come from you? Kev saw a great international future for him - can't say anyone else really had that vision.
It tends to happen in a number of sports though doesn't it? A coach comes to a club and some of his ex compadres seem to make their way to the same place over a period of time.
There are uncoonfirmed rumours that it caused friction within the Somerset dressing room for a period of time with the 'Middlesex Mafia' exerting pressure but they all seemed good guys to us boundary huggers. Dutchy went under a bit of an unexplained cloud but he was a real favourite while here and left me with some of my best cricketing memories of the last decade.
Johno was just awesome when fit and in full flight - loads of 'if onlys' with him - an inswinging yorker to die for!
Kev was quite pacey when he first came and watching him with Andre Van Troost at the other end who was rocket fuelled was an interesting experience.
Aaron promised but delivered in fits between injury bouts and I've no idea what happened to him after leaving here. We still seem to be looking at you occasionally even though the 'Poacher' has gone. Langer came of his own accord and if we go back so did Graham Rose (one of the unsung allrounders without an England cap - travesty) a long time ago.
You call it 'poaching' we call it 'peachy'
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: ''My Luvver'' (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2008 11:49
Johhno did express the view that he was unhappy with the help he was getting at MCCC,and definitely expressed a desire to work with Kevin ,whom he held in high regard.
Dutchy felt renewed frustration,when he failed to establish a regular place I believe together with a desire to return to his roots.
Aaron ,a bit of an enigma of whom I,Kevin and many others saw huge potential, for it never to materialise,I believe you gave him a five year deal initially.
You did of course as you say get tremendous service from Rosey,and no doubt the feeling is had he stayed at Middlesex ,International regognition would surely have followed.
Dutchy felt renewed frustration,when he failed to establish a regular place I believe together with a desire to return to his roots.
Aaron ,a bit of an enigma of whom I,Kevin and many others saw huge potential, for it never to materialise,I believe you gave him a five year deal initially.
You did of course as you say get tremendous service from Rosey,and no doubt the feeling is had he stayed at Middlesex ,International regognition would surely have followed.
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: BarmierKev (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2008 11:57
The only thing odd about Jonno was him receieving a benefit from Somerset, just before moving back here. Such decisions make a farce out of concept IMHO.
Also Thos Hunt what happened to him after being peached from us?
Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele
Also Thos Hunt what happened to him after being peached from us?
Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: ''My Luvver'' (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2008 12:04
I'd agree there Kevin,55 matches I believe it was,but a condition of him signing in the first place and in the contract.
I'm off to seach for 'The Thosser'
I'm off to seach for 'The Thosser'
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2008 12:42
I think we honoured his position as a long term senior county professional.
There was a lot of debate about it at the time but with that kind of thing the supporters have the choice of contributing or not and I didn't think he did badly out of it in the end. He played vital roles for his second county in considerable pain on more than one occasion and that is enough for me as a Somerset supporter.
It was confirmed during the debate about it that it WAS NOT written into his contract as a condition of signing for us.
Thos Hunt now there is a strange one. He came as a young bowling hope. Played in a university friendly at the start of the season. Bowled a load of wides and impressed no-one (probably nerves as much as anything) didn't get a look in for a season and was then released.
I think you're right about Rosey. His decision to leave London and move to the provinces did for his England chances. Shame really because he and Mark Alleyne were the cream of bowling batsmen and lost out to their inferiors on more than one occasion during the mid 90's
Such are the vagaries of national selection.
There was a lot of debate about it at the time but with that kind of thing the supporters have the choice of contributing or not and I didn't think he did badly out of it in the end. He played vital roles for his second county in considerable pain on more than one occasion and that is enough for me as a Somerset supporter.
It was confirmed during the debate about it that it WAS NOT written into his contract as a condition of signing for us.
Thos Hunt now there is a strange one. He came as a young bowling hope. Played in a university friendly at the start of the season. Bowled a load of wides and impressed no-one (probably nerves as much as anything) didn't get a look in for a season and was then released.
I think you're right about Rosey. His decision to leave London and move to the provinces did for his England chances. Shame really because he and Mark Alleyne were the cream of bowling batsmen and lost out to their inferiors on more than one occasion during the mid 90's
Such are the vagaries of national selection.
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: ''My Luvver'' (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2008 13:23
I bow to your superior knowledge Grockle,however it did not come as a great surprise I'll wager,though I do believe I read somewhere no county player had been granted a benefit after so few first -class matches.
That he was in pain for alot of the time should come as no surprise as he was unfit when you signed him in the first place,and almost crippled when we amazingly took him back.
That he was in pain for alot of the time should come as no surprise as he was unfit when you signed him in the first place,and almost crippled when we amazingly took him back.
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2008 15:20
Shiney totally re-modelled his action when he arrived he explained to us because he was ripping his knee sideways all the time to protect his back.
They worked out a way he could follow through over his front foot without putting strain on the back and it worked for a while (about a season) but the moment he got injured all the bits started to contribute to more and more lay offs.
We were also short so, as seems to have been the story of his career, he never got the rehab he needed because there was always pressure on him to play.
No-one was more amazed than us when he went back to Lords. My info was that we offered him a season on fitness conditions and were gazumpped by you lot who offered him more to go back. He didn't particularly want the move and would have happily stayed down here but when you're there and the money is offered for the last time, how can you turn it down? We were in two minds from a supporting point of view because it was pretty obvious to us that he was going to struggle to make the fitness requirements and we would have had to use him sparingly even then.
Sad end to a sad career in many ways. What could he have been had the start been different?
They worked out a way he could follow through over his front foot without putting strain on the back and it worked for a while (about a season) but the moment he got injured all the bits started to contribute to more and more lay offs.
We were also short so, as seems to have been the story of his career, he never got the rehab he needed because there was always pressure on him to play.
No-one was more amazed than us when he went back to Lords. My info was that we offered him a season on fitness conditions and were gazumpped by you lot who offered him more to go back. He didn't particularly want the move and would have happily stayed down here but when you're there and the money is offered for the last time, how can you turn it down? We were in two minds from a supporting point of view because it was pretty obvious to us that he was going to struggle to make the fitness requirements and we would have had to use him sparingly even then.
Sad end to a sad career in many ways. What could he have been had the start been different?
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: BarmierKev (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2008 16:38
I have recalled my Poacher's chant I wanted reverberated around Southgate during that Sunday league game, needless to say it didn't catch on, but some contributors here enjoyed it. Apologies for my surreal digression , but in the tune of my ole man's a dustman here goes.
" Kevin Shine's a Poacher
He wears a Poacher's hat
And when he saw our line up
He said I'm avin some of that.
He poached Richard Johnson
He poached Keithy Dutch
And when Laraman was available........
He said... thank you very much
He poached our star all rounder
His name is Graham Rose
And why he poached Thossy Hunt
Noone really knows"
Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele
" Kevin Shine's a Poacher
He wears a Poacher's hat
And when he saw our line up
He said I'm avin some of that.
He poached Richard Johnson
He poached Keithy Dutch
And when Laraman was available........
He said... thank you very much
He poached our star all rounder
His name is Graham Rose
And why he poached Thossy Hunt
Noone really knows"
Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2008 17:32
Now that would've been something to hear Kev....and you could have danced to it as well!
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: ''My Luvver'' (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2008 19:08
Johhno of course was still playing last season for Berkshire, where in 6 championship matches he took 28 wickets @just over 28 each and scored 37 runs in 5 innings.
I kmow not where he played his club cricket,can anyone help?
I kmow not where he played his club cricket,can anyone help?
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: Ged (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2008 21:11
I happened to walk past the Middlesex Office at Lord's the other day.
I saw Vinny Codrington, Gus Fraser and Toby Radford sitting around a large pan of boiling water cracking eggs and dropping the contents into the pan.
I cannot imagine what they were doing.
I saw Vinny Codrington, Gus Fraser and Toby Radford sitting around a large pan of boiling water cracking eggs and dropping the contents into the pan.
I cannot imagine what they were doing.
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: adelaide (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2008 21:51
[quote Grockle]
Did Laraman come from you? Kev saw a great international future for him - can't say anyone else really had that vision.[quote]
I was quite taken aback when I first saw Aaron Laraman bowl. He seemed to me to come virtually to a full stop just before delivery, losing much of his momentum. Won one match (v Glos?) with a cracking innings though.
Adelaide
Did Laraman come from you? Kev saw a great international future for him - can't say anyone else really had that vision.[quote]
I was quite taken aback when I first saw Aaron Laraman bowl. He seemed to me to come virtually to a full stop just before delivery, losing much of his momentum. Won one match (v Glos?) with a cracking innings though.
Adelaide
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: Ajay (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2008 22:12
Not sure if Johnno is playing any club cricket but did notice that Aaron Laraman was still turning his arm over for Welwyn Garden City CC recently.
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2008 23:21
He did show a couple of times for us but injury made those so far apart that we couldn't maintain him as a sensible option.
Welwyn Garden...hmmm seems we were right. Nice bloke though
Welwyn Garden...hmmm seems we were right. Nice bloke though
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: VictheFish (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2008 00:11
Last heard from was running an Academy in Hertfordshire. Not sure if he was playing for the minor-county though.
Perhaps with better fitness and the right opportunity ... ?
VtF.
Perhaps with better fitness and the right opportunity ... ?
VtF.
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: ''My Luvver'' (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2008 16:02
Aaron has certainly ben playing for Hertfordshire for the past three seasons with much success.
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: freddie tittlemouse (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2008 16:47
I complained (by email) to Vinny Codrington about letting Laraman leave and he replied "Drop in and see me next time you are passing the office and I will tell you the real truth about Aaron". But I never did. Wonder what he meant?
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: ''My Luvver'' (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2008 16:49
No need to wonder Freddie,phone him up and ask him.
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: freddie tittlemouse (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2008 16:52
Unlike you LB, I'm a bit short on temerity.
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: ''My Luvver'' (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2008 16:57
Then you could die wondering Freddie!
Re: A Chance to Shine
Posted by: Ged (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2008 22:27
Never envisaged you as temeriously challenged, Freddie Tittlemouse. I've formed a whole new perspective on your personality.
Perhaps I should have spotted the clue in the "mouse" syllable in your monicker.
Perhaps I should have spotted the clue in the "mouse" syllable in your monicker.
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