Well I think Sweeney is a good signing. The quota of 6 non Welsh qualified players per region for next season means we can only sign Welsh qualified players for 2008-09.

I would take Robinson & Sweeney as our 10s, over Robinson and Macca, any day.

The fact that he's signed knowing that Nicky is here shows that he's ambitious and up for a challenge. I think with Sweeney playing in a better team and with a bit of competition for Nicky, we'll get the best out of both players. Good stuff.

Why not play the 2 in the same team one at 10 and the other 12. The question of which way round is debatable. I've often wondered how given a good Fly Half Nicky would go in the centre this may give us chance to find out

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mackumblue
Why not play the 2 in the same team one at 10 and the other 12. The question of which way round is debatable. I've often wondered how given a good Fly Half Nicky would go in the centre this may give us chance to find out

Why not? Beacause Sweeney is not as good as the other centres we have available.
Given a good Fh, NR may well look good in the centre but what has Sweeneuy got to do with a good FH?

Good signing. If he ups his game and knocks Nicky out off the first xv then that will mean hes looking pretty good. If he doesnt, hes about the best WQ back up you could get at the moment. Who else is there? Not alot!

I'm completely underwhelmed.

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TooFamousRob
I'm completely underwhelmed.

Who would you want to sign then??

I'm not blaming the club as the options aren't great but the thought of Nicky's back up being as flaky as Bad Nicky doesn't fill me with joy.

One of those "oh, right" signings isn't it.

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TooFamousRob
I'm not blaming the club as the options aren't great but the thought of Nicky's back up being as flaky as Bad Nicky doesn't fill me with joy.
One of those "oh, right" signings isn't it.

I suppose.

He is alot better than the options we have at the moment. Although it would be good to see Macca given some ball!!!

For what's it worth, I think signing Sweeney is a good one.

Think he is often underrated.

I aggree with most here. He's the best available WQ player, better than Macca and Flannagan, but where does this leave the latter two?

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ExiledinStaffs
I aggree with most here. He's the best available WQ player, better than Macca and Flannagan, but where does this leave the latter two?

I imagine Macca will go back to being IC and Fullback cover until his contract runs out. But he still has the rest of this season to impress, and hes done well at 10 before, when hes been given decent ball.

Flanagan will be 3rd choice 10 again i assume.

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jenksta
I suppose.

He is alot better than the options we have at the moment. Although it would be good to see Macca given some ball!!!

Absolutely. I can't understand why Dai has presevered with 'protecting' him in the way they have in the last three games. Should have been allowed to get on with it against Edinburgh. Just added pressure for all concerened on Friday now.

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jenksta
Good signing. If he ups his game and knocks Nicky out off the first xv then that will mean hes looking pretty good. If he doesn't, hes about the best WQ back up you could get at the moment. Who else is there? Not a lot!

That sums up the problem in Wales. He's WQ so it's OK. Why? He's not good enough Welsh or not alternatively he's good enough Welsh or not.

When will we get away from this comfort zome for average welsh players?

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TooFamousRob
I'm not blaming the club as the options aren't great...

I am! this problem was apparent when Iestyn left no cover for NR. The directors etc have clearly failed to build the spine of the team. Still a shiny new (rented) stadium will put it all right!

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S A Brained

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jenksta
Good signing. If he ups his game and knocks Nicky out off the first xv then that will mean hes looking pretty good. If he doesn't, hes about the best WQ back up you could get at the moment. Who else is there? Not a lot!

That sums up the problem in Wales. He's WQ so it's OK. Why? He's not good enough Welsh or not alternatively he's good enough Welsh or not.

When will we get away from this comfort zome for average welsh players?

Think this is being aimed at the wrong person entirely. I am probably the biggest advocate on this site for abolishing the limit on 6 nWq players. But sadly the rule is in place and as a back up 10 i think Sweeney would be the best in Wales, although Shaun Connor would push him close.

Do you want to get rid of Molitika, Rush, Tito, Spice, Filise or Stitch to accommodate a NWQ 10. Because they are the best players in their positions by miles and we couldn't get a player of the same ability that is Welsh Qualified (so we don't go over the limit) to replace any of them.

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TooFamousRob

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jenksta
I suppose.

He is alot better than the options we have at the moment. Although it would be good to see Macca given some ball!!!

Absolutely. I can't understand why Dai has presevered with 'protecting' him in the way they have in the last three games. Should have been allowed to get on with it against Edinburgh. Just added pressure for all concerened on Friday now.

Im beginning to think we have a game plan that is set for a block of games. Refreshing it for each set of important games. We changed the style of play for the Stade games and have stuck to that. Before that we had a slightly different game plan for the Bristol Quins etc games. I guess we will see on friday. Im hoping for a completely different attitude in the back line.

Agree with others the stupid NWQ rule has pushed us into signing an average player just because he is Welsh. I bet this inflated his wages considerably too!!

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jenksta

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S A Brained

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jenksta
Good signing. If he ups his game and knocks Nicky out off the first xv then that will mean hes looking pretty good. If he doesn't, hes about the best WQ back up you could get at the moment. Who else is there? Not a lot!

That sums up the problem in Wales. He's WQ so it's OK. Why? He's not good enough Welsh or not alternatively he's good enough Welsh or not.

When will we get away from this comfort zome for average welsh players?

Think this is being aimed at the wrong person entirely. I am probably the biggest advocate on this site for abolishing the limit on 6 nWq players. But sadly the rule is in place and as a back up 10 i think Sweeney would be the best in Wales, although Shaun Connor would push him close.

Do you want to get rid of Molitika, Rush, Tito, Spice, Filise or Stitch to accommodate a NWQ 10. Because they are the best players in their positions by miles and we couldn't get a player of the same ability that is Welsh Qualified (so we don't go over the limit) to replace any of them.

If you actually read the post I make no reference to you merely to the stupidity of allowing players full time contracts onnationality rather than ability.

I have no desire to see any of the players you mention go but at a push the one we could best afford to lose would be stitch.

Why?
Molitika, what other 6 do we have that is even near him

Rush,again no one else in the squad compares.

Tito, the big reason for the dog in the pack this season. something missing for several year.

Spice, has shown him self to be a good aquisition just needs to curb the hot headedness.

Filise, simply the only TH who can scrummage.

Stitch, JR, TS, GT, MS, DH & TS the list is good. TS & GT cover wing as well GT covers FB we have plenty of options.

So sadly stitch is the most "letgoable" of the NWQs.

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S A Brained

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jenksta

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S A Brained

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jenksta
Good signing. If he ups his game and knocks Nicky out off the first xv then that will mean hes looking pretty good. If he doesn't, hes about the best WQ back up you could get at the moment. Who else is there? Not a lot!

That sums up the problem in Wales. He's WQ so it's OK. Why? He's not good enough Welsh or not alternatively he's good enough Welsh or not.

When will we get away from this comfort zome for average welsh players?

Think this is being aimed at the wrong person entirely. I am probably the biggest advocate on this site for abolishing the limit on 6 nWq players. But sadly the rule is in place and as a back up 10 i think Sweeney would be the best in Wales, although Shaun Connor would push him close.

Do you want to get rid of Molitika, Rush, Tito, Spice, Filise or Stitch to accommodate a NWQ 10. Because they are the best players in their positions by miles and we couldn't get a player of the same ability that is Welsh Qualified (so we don't go over the limit) to replace any of them.

If you actually read the post I make no reference to you merely to the stupidity of allowing players full time contracts onnationality rather than ability.

I have no desire to see any of the players you mention go but at a push the one we could best afford to lose would be stitch.

Why?
Molitika, what other 6 do we have that is even near him

Rush,again no one else in the squad compares.

Tito, the big reason for the dog in the pack this season. something missing for several year.

Spice, has shown him self to be a good aquisition just needs to curb the hot headedness.

Filise, simply the only TH who can scrummage.

Stitch, JR, TS, GT, MS, DH & TS the list is good. TS & GT cover wing as well GT covers FB we have plenty of options.

So sadly stitch is the most "letgoable" of the NWQs.

My apoligies. Quoting my post led me to believe you were aiming it at me.

I agree with your points on Spice, Tito, Filise, Rush and Molitika but i disagree about Stitch. I think we have missed him badly this season. While we seem to have learned how to defend when hes not in the team, we still struggle to attack. Even when Nicky was fit we struggled at times. It would now seem that Dai has realised that Shanks and Alfie are NOT ICs.

Flanagan's lack of defence may have necessitated one of them at 12 but Stitch would have done that just as well if not better at helping him through. Personally as i have said in the other thread. Id probably let Blair go as things stand at this moment in time.

According to the BBC website archive Blair signed a 3 year contract.

WISH I STILL LIVED IN CARDIFF

I agree he is invaluable but due to the non alternatives in the other positions he is the one to go, if one has to.

For what it's worth (and probably few value my opinions anyway) i think sweeney's a very ordinary player who i cannot see improving the team at all.
No way am i a massive NR fan but he far better on his day than sweeney. i'm disappointed with both the sweeney and gareth thomas signings. IT'S LOOKING MORE LIKE A BLEEDING OLD PALS CLUB IMO (please see the current board as an example).
The club should be investing in the up and coming WQ players, ie, the likes of tom cheeseman of bath etc...
Also i still believe we need a bloady good clearout at end of the season (macleod, stitch if not fit, spice to name but a few).
THE ONLY 2 BACKS WHO HAVE PERFORMED CONSISTENTLY THIS SEASON AND ARE WORTH THEIR CRUST ARE TOM JAMES AND JAMIE ROBERTS.

Jamie Roberts is in my opinion, the most important back player we have. He's unflappable under the high ball, runs well, tackles well and gets involved. Tom james is raw, but he's very important for teh future also.

As for Sweeney, he's the deadwood we should be looking to get rid of, not sign. I'd much rather stick with Dai Flannagan, see him through the rough patch, and hope that he'll come good.

Admin of theArmsPark.co.uk,
Make Noise and You Will Be Heard!

Don't know if this is confirmed or not so don't want to convey sour grapes but as a dragon i can't say I'll watch him go with a heavy heart. When we got Cooper and Sweeney I was chuffed but Cooper was only any good for 1 season whereas CS has been bobbins throughout and just about 1/2 decent at best for the last 18 months. He's tough and sturdy and could do a job as a 12 but as far as game management goes, he's cost us as many games as he's won. I won't miss him and would be happier with Shaun Connor, or even Arwel Thomas! ( Or come back Craig Warlow!?) You either want a 10 to be totally reliable and efficient - Humphreys/Wilkinson - or the type to make things happen - Hook etc. CS isn't and probably won't ever be either. You're welcome to him.

Dry losing Spice and Stitch would be a BIG loss at the moment, investing in good up and coming players is good and well but you can't have them in every position we are doing our fair share of development. Both Macca and Flanagan have shown no improvment over the seasons and thats why we have been forced to sign Sweeny added to the fact that he is the best WQ player available. Jamie Roberts is going to be masive for is not decided on Tom James yet from whta i have seen he appears to be a bit slow. As for clear out can't I would like to see Sidoli, Macca, Flanagan,Selly and possible Andy Powell gone but can't see it happening because our squad would be thread bair.

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theArmsPark.co.uk Admin
Jamie Roberts is in my opinion, the most important back player we have. He's unflappable under the high ball, runs well, tackles well and gets involved. Tom james is raw, but he's very important for teh future also.
As for Sweeney, he's the deadwood we should be looking to get rid of, not sign. I'd much rather stick with Dai Flannagan, see him through the rough patch, and hope that he'll come good.

Thing is Admin, we will more than likely be sticking with Flanagan but at the moment he is no better than a 3rd choice OH, Sweeney is undoubtably better than him, and while i would have prefered a better player. We simply couldn't get one because of the nWq rules. It is the best signing we could make.

What about the 10s in the CRFC premiership team? I don't get to see then enough. so would like to know if any of them could be ready to sep up?

Is it really worth giving Sweeney a pension?

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Cardiff Boo's
Jamie Roberts is going to be masive for is not decided on Tom James yet from whta i have seen he appears to be a bit slow.

Slow? You what? He is probably up there with Jones as the quickest player in the Welsh game!

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S A Brained
What about the 10s in the CRFC premiership team? I don't get to see then enough. so would like to know if any of them could be ready to sep up?
Is it really worth giving Sweeney a pension?

Craig Evans is the better of the two and has real potential, but has a tendency to blow a little hot and cold and his defence is worse than Flanagan's at the moment. I can see him stepping up and at least being a ML level success but not yet.

Thanks!

I'd rather see flanagan given a chance - he could be the future. If we do need another welsh fly half then why not approach henson - he seems out of sorts at the ospreys. only problem being that he'd have to take a pay cut!

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Rhythm&Blues
I'd rather see flanagan given a chance - he could be the future. If we do need another welsh fly half then why not approach henson - he seems out of sorts at the ospreys. only problem being that he'd have to take a pay cut!

Not necessarily take a pay cut. But we would have to buy out his contract and get the Ospreys to let us do it...

what a disapointment the news i was dreading, sweeney is average at best i just know norster will go on about how the blues are showing ambition when in fact this signing is the opposite.
If this is true we have missed an oppurtunity here we should be signing a really class act at fly half someone like the all black nick evans or even wilinson whos out of contract at end of season (not saying i would sign him just an example of a big name)
for those banging on about the NWQ players rule as justification for this, just get rid of one off them I nominate spice who is just going through the motions rees or even allinson could get a chance. whats the point in two average players at fly half who lets be honest are now way down the weslh pecking order.

Tom James slow who do you want on the wing Linford Christie and Carl Lewis The area of the Arms Park I sit in are comparing him to the best Cardiff wing of the past 20 years, Nigel Walker.

If the statement was qualified to read Tom is slow defensively I'm afraid I'd probably agree. Think of the first two Leicester tries in the EDF both scored in his corner. Nige was also a bit suspect in his early career defensively. Tom will improve in this area. If Chris Czekai makes a full recovery next season will be interesting as to who we are going to play on the wings.

I was discussing the Sweeney signing with some work colleagues earlier this week and I also said we would have been better off chasing Henson because of the NWQ rule but it could be that 7 of the other 8 NDG backs make Sweeney look bad he certainly didn't with the Warriors. In his early career with Pontypridd he was a good Fly Half and compared favourably to Jenkins and then Harris

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jake1
what a disapointment the news i was dreading, sweeney is average at best i just know norster will go on about how the blues are showing ambition when in fact this signing is the opposite.
If this is true we have missed an oppurtunity here we should be signing a really class act at fly half someone like the all black nick evans or even wilinson whos out of contract at end of season (not saying i would sign him just an example of a big name)
for those banging on about the NWQ players rule as justification for this, just get rid of one off them I nominate spice who is just going through the motions rees or even allinson could get a chance. whats the point in two average players at fly half who lets be honest are now way down the weslh pecking order.

Did you see Rees against Stade away, The Dragons or the Ospreys? Spice is miles ahead of him at the moment. No good having Nick Evans (who is under contract by the way - people keep forgetting about contracts!!) if Richie Rees or a Raw youngster like Allinson are inside him. He wont be able to do much!

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jake1
what a disapointment the news i was dreading, sweeney is average at best i just know norster will go on about how the blues are showing ambition when in fact this signing is the opposite.
If this is true we have missed an oppurtunity here we should be signing a really class act at fly half someone like the all black nick evans or even wilinson whos out of contract at end of season (not saying i would sign him just an example of a big name)
for those banging on about the NWQ players rule as justification for this, just get rid of one off them I nominate spice who is just going through the motions rees or even allinson could get a chance. whats the point in two average players at fly half who lets be honest are now way down the weslh pecking order.

But if we sign a nWq player for next season, we'll have to get rid of 2 of our existing nWq players not 1. The limit is going back down to 6 from 7.

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mackumblues
Tom James slow who do you want on the wing Linford Christie and Carl Lewis The area of the Arms Park I sit in are comparing him to the best Cardiff wing of the past 20 years, Nigel Walker.
If the statement was qualified to read Tom is slow defensively I'm afraid I'd probably agree. Think of the first two Leicester tries in the EDF both scored in his corner. Nige was also a bit suspect in his early career defensively. Tom will improve in this area. If Chris Czekai makes a full recovery next season will be interesting as to who we are going to play on the wings.

I was discussing the Sweeney signing with some work colleagues earlier this week and I also said we would have been better off chasing Henson because of the NWQ rule but it could be that 7 of the other 8 NDG backs make Sweeney look bad he certainly didn't with the Warriors. In his early career with Pontypridd he was a good Fly Half and compared favourably to Jenkins and then Harris

Hopefully Roberts, CC and James will be our back three for the next few years.

Henson is under CONTRACT! Why would the Os write that off so he can join us??

Sweeney hasnt been brilliant for the last few seasons. But he has shown flashes of that ability at times. His set up of Ashley Smith the other day was pretty good! He has shown he has ability in the past, against NZ in the RWC03 springs to mind, its a pity he hasnt shown it much since!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:01:09:18:26:56 by jenksta.

Did you see Rees against Stade away, The Dragons or the Ospreys? Spice is miles ahead of him at the moment. No good having Nick Evans (who is under contract by the way - people keep forgetting about contracts!!) if Richie Rees or a Raw youngster like Allinson are inside him. He wont be able to do much![/quote]

Did you not see Spice against Edinburgh or Leinster when he was extremely poor?? Rees was one of the only players to impress against the Ospreys in a team where no one really stood out. What about the Dragons and Munster away matches where Rees was very impressive by all accounts, and young Allison looked like a prospect in the dragons match at home. All three will hopefully carry on impressing in the next couple of years. We need another ten to push Nicky Robinson and make him play consistantely at his best which will hopefully allow him to go on and add to his Welsh caps and make us the top class team we are close to being.

Come on the Blues

We have a major problem when there are pple commenting how much the likes of flanagan are not getting any better. lets be honest, if u were playing in the premiership week in week out would make any sort of improvement over the space of 3 years.
We are badly missing a link between the premiership standard and regional standard. what about a regional 'b' team eh ? just a thought.

well larry at last a positive about Richie. i totally agree with everything you stated.
Jenksta whom actually did play well against Dragons and the Os, at least Richie put his hand up, and gave 100% and tackled everything, so why not just get behind the team and not be so bloody NEGATIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It might make you feel a little more POSITIVE !!!!

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DRY
We have a major problem when there are pple commenting how much the likes of flanagan are not getting any better. lets be honest, if u were playing in the premiership week in week out would make any sort of improvement over the space of 3 years.
We are badly missing a link between the premiership standard and regional standard. what about a regional 'b' team eh ? just a thought.

I think your comments are spot on, DRY. The Premiership's role will never be to feed players to the pro-arm of the sport - the gap is too wide and getting wider.

No. The Premiership's role is to act as a bribe so that the WRU can retain its position in total control of Welsh rugby. The WRU needs to keep pumping money into the premiership in order to keep the amateurs and psuedo-amateurs voting for them.

Incidentally though, I reckon that Flanagan's biggest weakness is his physique and the way he dodges physical contact. This has nothing to do with playing in the premiership and everything to do with how he builds his physique - what he eats, how he trains and most importantly how much time he spends in the gym pushing weights.

The real problem in Wales is that someone like Flanagan can still get a contract despite clearly lacking the application to build the physique required for a professional rugby player.

Great thread gents. Everyone has different opinions. Im not being negative about Rees. His performance against the Dragons at the beginning of the season was very good. But to me Spice is clearly the better scrum half, AT THE MOMENT, if Rees learns how to control a game properly from Spice, with his additional pace he will be a top notch scrum half. Ive said often enough that Spice and Rees coming and Phillips leaving was great for us, which should show how highly i rate both players.

Echo said last night that the club had told them Sweeney had NOT signed for us yet.

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jenksta
Great thread gents. Everyone has different opinions. Im not being negative about Rees. His performance against the Dragons at the beginning of the season was very good. But to me Spice is clearly the better scrum half, AT THE MOMENT, if Rees learns how to control a game properly from Spice, with his additional pace he will be a top notch scrum half. Ive said often enough that Spice and Rees coming and Phillips leaving was great for us, which should show how highly i rate both players.
Echo said last night that the club had told them Sweeney had NOT signed for us yet.

It has all been rather quiet from the clubs side regarding Sweeney however i think it is just a matter of time before it is announced

A serious point, why don't the premiership sides feild players together who are likely to make the step up together. I know that sounds complicated but my point is, when for example, Allinson, Flannagan and hewitt aren't on Blues duty, they should always be playing together. that way, they will get used to playing with each other. the hardest thing for any new signing, or new to the team is trying to forge a partnership. I think if they played together for a season at Prem level, while calling the trio up at the same time together for the lesser Magner's League matches, the step up would be smoother and result in a more harmonius back line.

The reason Nick Robinson is (in my opinion) fantastic for the Blues, but indecisive for wales is the 9 and 12 either side of him. When they change, they can't read his game, through experience, you get a very good blend aand a better TEAM ethic.

Just a thought.

Admin of theArmsPark.co.uk,
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I agree flanagan needs to bulk up and also the idea of players playing together in the premiership. The gap in quality would still be too big tho between premiership and regional level IMO.
FINGERS CROSSED FOR HARLEQUINS GAME !!!!!!

OI, I SAID FINGERS CROSSED MR SMILEY !!!!

Allinson is a Cardiff rfc allocation whilst Flanagan is with ponty. How would you get the ntogetherr? The A or B league that has been suggested?

yea, see other post for my thoughts on that S A

Admin of theArmsPark.co.uk,
Make Noise and You Will Be Heard!