APB: So: Promotion and relegation. Good thing or bad thing for English rugby? 

Lanny: I think if you looked at where I've recruited my players from, my past five years I've been developing young English players. Period. Now I don't  care where they're from! My job is to get Leeds back into the Premiership, and whether they're from Argentina, Fiji, Samoa or wherever it doesn't make any difference to me. So I think that tells a tale in itself. For me, I think that Yorkshire needs a Premiership club, and I think Leeds is it. Everyone I've spoken to wants Leeds to be in the Premiership, but no-one deserves to be there they have to earn the right. To be relegated and lose some of our academy players is disappointing but I think that there is a need for English Rugby to sort out the structure of the season because the national game is suffering. I think they need to focus on giving young English talent a chance to play. I've spent my last five years on development, so I'd make substitutions or select a side based on development, so I might select a young player at the expense of an older one, where I might compromise winning the game in order to develop the player. Now I won't be doing that! But I've still got development in my heart, so Adam Greendale and Callum Clark for example who are two of the best players at u17/u18 are currently training full time with our first team now – they're on school holidays which is quite bizarre; leaving school and training with Argentinian internationals! But they stand out as quality players. Callum Clark is king of the hills at 17 years old. Adam Greendale steps in at 10 and is very very competent. 17 years old. So whilst my focus is now on winning, because we need to get back into the Premiership, I'll still have that development in my heart and I think the more people like me that come through the system and believe in that system, the better English rugby will be, but English rugby need to sort the system out so that we don't have to go down the route of buying in players from all over the place, we back our Ryan Lambs, our Rob Vickermanns, our Tom Biggs'. And I feel really sorry that Leeds became a victim of our own development policy. Phil gave young lads an opportunity, we then lost the ability to play them through the international periods for age group games which was frustrating, and ultimately we lost them! So there's a lot of things to work through. That being said I have a great relationship with the RFU. They've been massively supportive to me and the players. So I won't criticise the RFU, I'll just criticise the structure, and I'd say we need to improve the structure quick. I think its too late for 2007, we need to start thinking about 2011 now, and if we can get the structure right for then, with a system that allows young players to be developed in a tough elite competition, then England will go a lot further in terms of winning world cups than they are at the moment. 

APB: You've already said that its obvious to everybody that promotion is THE thing for this year; you're not about marking time and hoping for a favourable ringfencing decision in a year or two. Who do you see as the real threats to achieving that – obviously I'm talking about teams here (although maybe some individuals are threats as well!?!?) 

Lanny: They're all real threats to us. We won't have any form of complacency. For example I went to see Otley play Harlequins last year at Cross Green, and Otley deserved to win that game. So the banana skins are there and we'll have them too. I for one will be approaching every game with equal respect. I won't be treating Waterloo or Sedgeley Park in any different way from Rotherham or Bedford, for example. Obviously there will be higher intensity for certain games but I certainly won't go down the route of saying which. I've got a lot of experience in this league, I've played in it.  Mark Luffman played the whole season last year in the league for Otley, Colin Stephens has played in the league, Martin Schustermann, Jacob Rauluni, so we've got lots of players who have experience in the league and where we don't have it I'm looking to tap into people who do to make sure we leave no stone unturned. We had Brian Campsall in yesterday to talk about what type of referees and refereeing standards we can expect and what the emphasis is in National 1 compared to the Premiership because it'll be different. 

APB: It will indeed and that was an interesting thing I read about the Quins fans' experiences in National 1, and they were always going on about the stark difference in refereeing, both standard and style, between the premiership and ND1 

Lanny: But then again I've come from a level of games that has had these referees in, so I personally am used to that level. I say to my coaches and players that I don't have any ego about these places. And none of my players will have any ego about going to Otley or Rotherham or wherever, or any of the referees or any of the changing rooms or any other facilities, because if we've got any of that, we'll be done! Because my last five years have been brought up at Chandos Park – no disrespect to Chandos – with referees of all different shapes and sizes and standards and I'm used to dealing with different types of referees like that, and more importantly the players have become better equiped to manage them. Because referee management is the single most important thing. Its not the quality of the referee but how you manage him, because if you get his back up in the first five minutes you're on a hiding to nothing. So you need to make sure your captain and your decision makers and your influences on the referee are positive. Its part of the stuff I've been doing in developing players trying to educate them with better referee management so we get a better deal in it. Because we'll be seen as the big club and the opposition the underdog, and I think that referees sometimes favour the underdog, and we have to make sure we don't give them any opportunity.  

APB: What can we as fans, a group of disparate voices do to help in the season ahead? 

Lanny: That's interesting. People say that Leeds are a poorly supported club or have low attendances. I remember playing in front of 75 people! So we've got significantly more now that we had then! I think the fans can just be supportive. Understand the situation, and support the team. It takes time to grow a team, it takes time to grow a culture, it takes time to grow a club. It took five years to grow the academy to where it is now. If we're talking about making Leeds a sucessful Premiership team, we're talking five years. I'm not a big one for five year plans or anything like that – that's not what I've done – but I do think it takes time to grow and I think people need to be patient and understand the situation. We've taken some steps backwards, but I think in a lot of ways for me personally to effectively wipe the slate clean and start again is in many ways better than the potential situation I could have inherited. So I would say to fans to be patient and supportive. I understand that success brings support. I understand that and I don't have an issue with fans who say "they're not successful so I'm not going to support them anymore" because I think that's fair enough. Someone likened the Yorkshire rugby watching public as if they were going to the cinema; they'll go to see a film, but only if it’s a good film and they won't go every week. Which is an interesting analogy. But I think we've got a loyal band of three or four thousand who'll turn up every week in National 1 – maybe not so much for away games – and I just want them to be supportive and to spread a positive message. Bring their friends as well. I think people like John Bentley do a great job and that work is starting to pay off now, and I'd like to think that the performance we put on the field will encourage more to come. As fans that's all you can do; be supportive, recognise the situation and encourage people to come along. Its our responsibility to deliver the product. Not yours. So just cheer and be enthusiastic and bang on your drum! 

APB: You've seen me obviously! In that sense I think relegation could be a bit of a blessing in disguise. We may lose some attendance because of not being in the Premiership anymore… 

Lanny: Do you think we will? 

APB: We may or we may not, but we certainly won’t go down to the levels we've had before. So what you'll  then have I think is a bunch of people who've only ever seen Leeds playing in the Premiership and getting beaten two times out of three, in a division where – touch wood – they'll be winning more than that and then the whole focus changes. They'll be going home after a win rather than a loss, even if it was at a slightly lower level. 

Lanny: If they support the club then people want the team to win, and I agree with you that people tend to forget the level so to speak and think "well that was a bloody good game of rugby, I enjoyed that". And the new stand will be open, and again I'm old fashioned and believe the players should socialise with the opposition and with the fans after the game. And I'll be encouraging them to go into the bar – not necessarily have a drink – and they'll want to go to socialise. The more the fans can identify with the players and the team, the more the fans will feel part of it, and then it will grow. It takes time, but I think to divorce the team from the fans and to say go straight away to do some recovery, is the wrong way about it. When we play Otley, we'll be going to the bar and having a drink and socialising with the opposition and the fans. Same at Rotherham. Same at home. I think the fans should – if they can – get under the Carnegie stand and get to know the players. Look at the affinity the fans have with Tom Biggs; there's an example of how you can grow a fan base around players, who've got charisma. The reason the fans like him – correct me if I'm wrong – is because he gives 100%, plays with his heart on his sleeve, and he's talented. 

APB: He's awesomely talented, and you're right about the 100% thing; it certainly shows and I think that was one of the key things for me and for quite a few people I've been talking to about last year, that Biggsy was one of the few people who were clearly putting everything in, whereas there were others who it wasn't so obvious for.  

Lanny: I wasn't involved in coaching but from my perspective it was a different side of Leeds Tykes players than what I've seen in the past, and I think we got what we deserved to be honest. 

APB: I wouldn't disagree about that and I don't think many others would. 

Lanny: But we're done now on that, and I said to the players "we draw a line in the sand and move on, and by the way I'm on the same side as you". You know players, staff, coaches, fans; we're all in it together moving forward. 

APB: In terms of the announcements about the leavings from last year, there were certain high profile comments in the press that were rescinded the following day – one person in particular…. 

Lanny: You'll have to give me more than that! 

APB: OK it was Justin Marshall who said in the Yorkshire Post "I don't see why I wouldn't play in National 1" and the following day … 

Lanny: "I'm off!" 

APB: Exactly, which got a lot of peoples backs up, and his name is never mentioned anymore… 

Lanny: No. 

APB: ...But similarly there was the communication that went out I think in the name of Gary Hetherington, that effectively said "these are the players leaving, these are the players staying, this is where we are". Everybody thought "fair enough, it’s a bit disappointing all those lot are going, but at least these lot are staying." And now we've had Roland de Marigny famously has gone, Scott Morgan and Nathan Thomas have gone, and latterly Chris Murphy which is the biggest disappointment I think. Now certainly some of them you can understand – things have changed for them. But from my personal point of view that kind of means that you can't really take much of what you read about for granted anymore.  

Lanny: Just going back to that situation. We played on the Saturday, and Gary and I then met all the players that weren't definitely staying or weren't definitely going. We didn't meet Mike Shelley or Andre Snyman because they were definitely going. On the Sunday evening, I genuinely believe that that was the situation. So at the time the press thing went out, that was the situation. However some of the players received offers that weren't on the table when we spoke that were too good to turn down. One of the guys came to me and said "Lanny, you're not going to believe this. This situation has now occurred, and it's offer that I can't turn down." He had a clause to go and he said "I'm going to invoke the clause, its cutting me in half to do it, and I apologise for the situation it puts you in", and I said "I understand your reasons and good luck". So at the time, in that press statement, that was the truth. The fact is that the situation changed quickly for those individuals.  With Chris, he trained in pre-season with us for two weeks, fully anticipating to play for the full season. And then out of the blue this job offer comes in that blows him away, throws him upside down. So he discussed it with me, and discussed it with Gary, and ultimately came to the decision he did. And there's no maliciousness on the club's behalf, it was just circumstances, really. I'm keen we do the right thing with the media and the press, and Phil (Daly) genuinely does his best, but there are situations sometimes that you can't control. 

APB:I appreciate that and I certainly appreciate the reasons why all those individuals have gone and as you rightly said, things change, stuff happens. The unfortunate side-effect of this is that every official communique you see from Leeds Rugby is going to be taken with a pinch of salt until you see the player on the pitch or what have you. Which is a shame. 

Lanny: It IS a shame, and I'll just go back to my statement earlier: ring me! Ask me because certainly since that time I can't think of anything that's gone out that's been inaccurate or misleading… 

APB: This is it, it's always been bob-on up until now, and so you think "well I've read it here, so its obviously right". And this was another one – "Oh good, all these people are staying", but then a week later…. 

Lanny: As I said, that was the situation then. When that was sent out on the Sunday night, it was right. In hindsight, we should have put them down as leaving, and then announced "by the way, they're staying" – if they had stayed! 

APB: Interestingly again, back to our website, someone on our website is insisting that Gordon Ross might still be around because he hasn't been officially announced at Castres yet. I think he HAS been announced at Castres, but I think the principle is that this fella is saying there's a couple of people that haven't been officially announced as having signed for somewhere else, so maybe they might still be around! 

Lanny: No. My conversation with Gordon was around about two days before the Newcastle game, and that's when he said he'd signed an agreement with Castres; He was still umming and ahhing about staying with Leeds, but he decided to go to Castres and as far as I'm concerned – I haven't spoken to him since he's been there but I assume he's there! He's not here that’s for sure! That's the sort of thing where you need to call me and check it because I can give you the real answer and you can go on and say "spoken to Lanny, it’s a load of bollocks". I'd rather that than someone go on the website and say something like that and then maybe the players read it – I know they'd take it with a pinch of salt but I don’t think there's any reason for incorrect information. I understand your point but there was nothing that the club could have done differently other than do it the other way round. But I think everyone's learned from the experience and at the time it was a bloody difficult situation to manage. I think they do a pretty good job to be honest. 

APB: Last thing – Academy Manager? 

Lanny: Closing date was yesterday (18th July), interviews 1^st August. Shortlisting tonight, but we've got some very very good applicants. It is THE most important position in the club, and the poor bloke who gets it has got me breathing down his neck! It’s a massively important appointment, but we have some very high quality candidates. I would have thought a week or so into August we'll make an announcement. At the moment I'm doing both jobs. Obviously Mark has stepped up and taken a lot of the responsibility in terms of the coaching, but in terms of managing it I'm still involved. A conveyor belt of talent – phew! It just keeps on coming! I know we lost three, but you won't believe the ones that are behind and in amongst there! You remember those three didn't play in the Yorkshire Cup final. We beat Wharfedale with an U19 side. I'm not saying THAT side is a ND1 winning side, but a lot of those in years to come will be National 1/Premiership players. Unquestionably. The key philosophy for the club is to make sure we do that, and not to bring in a load of blokes on high salaries for them to leave in a years time if we don't achieve what we set out  to. We want a long term sustainable future and that's why the club went back to where we started. And I'm not going anywhere! 

APB: So how do I get my 11 year old talent spotted? 

Lanny: 11 is a bit young for our ID programme. Our ID programme starts at 12 and 13. Our first talent ID is at 13, and then they go and join our elite player development centre at 14. Then fast track at 15/16 the ones that will end up playing for England.  We had this year's England 16s captain, last years 16s captain. And these guys train with the first team, because if they're good enough they're in! The experience he'll get with training with Mark Lock, Martin Schustermann etc will be invaluable. And that's what I mean about the conveyor belt. Yorkshire is such a strong area for rugby players, and this is what will ultimately sell the club to players outside Yorkshire will be our players. And if we build our success through the first team we'll have a lot of momentum that people will find it difficult to deal with.

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